Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Experiencing a small, contained faith, tired of settling for less. But this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room because you were made for bigger things.
Hey there, and happy new year, and welcome to the spacious Room podcast. And if you're new for 2024, I want to welcome you. And I'm actually going to be doing something different this year.
I'm going to be doing some conversations around leadership. It's going to be called leaders talk. And I'm going to have different guests on each time, just speaking into different aspects of leadership, because I've been in church leadership for over 20 years and I've learned a thing or two. And the guests that I'm going to have on have learned things, too. And I just feel that we need to share this wisdom, little tidbits here and there that can help you in your leadership. Or if you're thinking about doing leadership, then these conversations are really going to help you. So my first guest is my dear husband, Philip. Philip Parker.
It's actually our wedding anniversary today, so I thought what better way to do an anniversary than to have a conversation with my husband about leadership. And my husband has been a leader in various different aspects of his jobs and in church, and he has a lot of wisdom to share. So today it's going to be about. But we tell a different story. And my husband is really good at team building. So to kick us off this new year, we're going to talk about team building and how leaders can build teams. Well, so welcome to my dear husband, Philip.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: Hello, Wendy.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: So this is the first time he's been on my. So this is just totally weird.
So you are definitely. I mean, he really plays it down, people listening. But my husband, he is very good at team building because he just sees the potential in people, and he's built teams over the years, and it's been amazing to watch.
But what I want to start off with, dear, is we talk about team building, but I want to just touch on the apostle Paul because he's very good at team building and he does the same model as Jesus does because Jesus is like the great team builder.
But in one corinthians 120 to 23 talks about that God doesn't choose us for deep wisdom or anything like that, or just being smart or being great. He chooses us because of our foolishness and just of our lack, really. And I want to touch on this because a lot of people that you team build with always say, oh, I'm not good at that. And I can't do that and they disqualify themselves. But that's why today. But we tell a different story. So how do you tell a different story to someone who feels like they're disqualifying themselves because they feel they can't do things? But you go, yeah, but you've been chosen, and I can help you build your potential. How do you start with.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Just. Thank you for that question, Wendy. It's great to be, actually, it's. How to describe it? You just walk alongside people.
Everybody's got potential.
There's nothing to be said that you cannot do anything.
It's just finding. Just having that self belief, obviously, we all start jobs, we all start in positions or anything we want to do. You don't know what you're going into. You don't know. You got maybe some skill sets or whatever in them jobs, but you don't know it off by heart or anything like that. So it comes along being able to learn, being able to believe that you can actually better yourself.
I always just look at people, and if they want to do something or willing to do something, and it's that belief, making them say, making them. It's giving them that belief, that belief that they are worth something. It's that self worth. I think we all want to be you that have that feeling of worth or value and giving people that value. I mean, in today's society, we're all of different races, religions, beliefs, opinions. So it's valuing the person rather than the job.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's good.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: So it's more of a, you got me out here and you put me out of my zone. Really out of my zone.
By the time people have listened to this, your subscriptions gone down or whatever, I don't know.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: I'm sure they'll go up.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: What's that clown doing? Yeah. Yes, it seemed valuing people, giving them the self worth.
We've all come from different beginnings, and we've all got special needs or skills or whatever that we can give, and we're all diamonds. Diamonds in the rough. I'm probably the most rough diamond out there, but it's finding those skills, those beliefs, and walking alongside somebody, it's that commitment and actually walking alongside a person.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: So is team building like discipleship? You disciple them?
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Yes, it is.
It is discipleship. It doesn't mean you're in their face every five minutes. You don't need to be in somebody's face, or I think the word is used, micromanaging. You don't need to be in their face. If you can see an ability in somebody, yeah, they probably don't know how to do the job completely or the task or whatever they need to do, but it's the purpose of walk alongside them. I mean, if you're going to give somebody a job and they don't know, you don't know how to do the job, but you're giving a job to somebody and say, hey, go and do this for me, and then just leave them out there. Are you not setting them up to fail?
Because anybody can be a leader or a manager. A manager will be just somebody who'll delegate your job. So leader is a guy or girl or wherever we want to say it nowadays, it's the person who's there who's going to be alongside you. That's a leader. A leader who's got your heart. And it's not necessarily or they've got your heart just for the role. There's a personal interrelationship there. That's why the discipleship, yes, it's the crossover. It's where we can turk the workplace to, obviously, the Bible as we discipleship.
And if the leader is a genuine feel of a leader, a leader will admit his or her faults, is open to changes or instruction, or they understand that the leader probably hasn't got it all together.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: If someone's listening now and they're going, I have people around me and I need to build a team.
What's the first step that you do? How do you go about it? Do you talk one on one with each individual of the team or you get them together?
We were talking the other day and I heard you say to someone, which.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Was easier off the microphone.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: That's right.
You weren't being recorded.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: As you can see, this is obviously my little.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: I've got him way out of his comfort zone, people.
You've got paperwork. I'm like, I've got a great idea for our 29th wedding anniversary. Why don't I interview you and do a conversation? But you have gold, dear. You do have gold to offer. And if someone's listening right now and they're like, I want to build a team, but what's the first thing you do? And how do you, like I said, this is what happens in our conversations. We go off track.
But you said to someone else the other day, you said, I go around each individual and go, why do you want to serve? So why do you do that?
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Because you're talking of, obviously, a church situation here. This is serving in the church.
I've been a Christian now for ten years, 13 years, and previously being in the navy, petty officer in the navy, you've skill sets and team building.
When I got to a church and I was like, originally I fell for those occasional, oh, you're serving. I want you to serve. Can you serve here? I feel you should be serving here, which is not necessarily true, to be honest.
Everybody always talks to me about, what's your calling? My calling, as wendy obviously thinks here is my calling is in the team building. Maybe it is.
You don't need to be in a position to actually build teams, as in having to be in charge of, say, of something at church to build teams. It comes around to listening to people watching and then asking the questions, why do I want to serve? I mean, you'll know in your heart if you want to serve personally. I've always felt if you want to serve in a church, you really want to be at the church, you want to be planted at the church.
You know, the reason why you go there, the community, you were there.
You know, you have that feeling in your heart, you know, this is where I want to be. This is my extended family or start of an extended family.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: So do you ask someone, why do you want to serve? So you know whether they're right for the team or right for the role.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: I ask them why they want to serve and oh, yeah, I want to serve for God. But sometimes that can be the, how would we say? Answer that they want to give. Anybody who asks, I'm serving because I'm in the house of God.
You can tell me personally, I sense I have a discernment there that probably, if they're being genuine or whatever, it's building up that rapport, that communication with people and talking, because that's the only way you'll get to know that person, build that team is how personally?
Because some people are shy. You can walk up to somebody, hello, and as soon as somebody goes, hello, shake their hand or whatever, we're all different as we're demonstrating here with me, my confidence is coming as we're going along. But it just feels sometimes the more you actually spend time and get to know people personally before giving them a role, you understand their heart or where they're at.
Yes. There's no point, as probably a lot of churches do.
I've been to a few churches. Yes.
Sometimes it can feel as if people just want you into position, obviously for positions. You're not given that time to settle into a church or settle into that family or that way of life.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: So more of a hole filler rather than actually.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Building a team who.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yes, like, say, I look at it also as in a workplace surrounding the same thing. I've done it many times in workplaces, you just building up team.
It all basically comes, I think, basically from the navy, the forces. And that team building euphoria that's built is because you obviously live with people 24 to 24/7 you've got to know how that person operates, lives exactly. Their emotions, you know, their emotions day in, day out in some cases.
But obviously everybody is willing to serve or protect or help each other, same as like your police, any services, any of your first responders. So that process is the process that probably I've carried from there, that I carry into civilian life, where in a civilian life we're more like, culturally, we're all like singular. I've got to get, I do more individualistic rather than yes, our attitudes are sometimes individualistic.
So always trying to bring it back that there's no I. The old no I in team, it's the old let's just all work together. We're all capable, we've all got the separate skills that will get that task or the job done or wherever you are. And it's just that, like you say, it's even discipleship. Because discipleship can your communication with people outside, even in a civilian or out of a church environment, in a workplace, you can. And still able.
They see Christ in you, they see you how your light and your salt, how you treat them. They're probably not believers, but they're seeing you operate, looking at them, talking to them, involving them, being around them, may not believe in everything they do and that every single little intricate, whatever they do is not always right. But you still take time for them. You still love them in a way. You're still loving them and you still got time for them. You're there for them. It's just a purpose like that.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: So we're going back to when you're in the navy and there's an element of when you work together, there can be life or death situations as forces have to deal with. But in a church setting, obviously, it's not quite life or death. Although if you're on the sound desk and it all goes wrong, it can sort of feel a bit that way.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yes, the old inevitable. As you can tell, I was on a creative mainly of my serving in the church has been mainly on creative, which is sound, lighting, or the old tvs or the sounds and words and the old everybody looks around if it goes wrong.
And as I've always said to any team I've built there, because we've all made mistakes on there and things go out of control.
I've always had this purpose that people, it's not a sit there and just press buttons, be involved. It's learning something. Like I say, it's learning something new.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Having a go, yeah.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: I'm not a technical whiz. A lot of this modern stuff, obviously, I'm getting on in age. As the younger kids are coming through now and they've all got all the new fandango stuff. You're just like, oh, what's all these bells and whistles? So you've got to adapt, you got to learn.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: But you can still have all the bells and whistles. But then it comes back to the team building again, doesn't it? And it comes back to the confidence and it comes back to the, I believe in you, even if you feel like you're going to fail, even if you feel like you're going to make a mistake, because your mantra is, isn't it? If you don't make a mistake on a team, then once you make one mistake, you're like, yeah, you're part of the team now.
It's like an initiation for you. Is to go, I treated, it's okay, you failed. Don't worry. Let's move on.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: There you go. That was one of the things. It was, whoa, you've just made a mistake. Fist pump. Boom, there you go. You're part of the team. That just diffuses personally, that just hopefully diffuses how they feel even after a church service, probably still come up to and go, oh, no, I made that mistake. Hey, don't worry about it. Everybody makes mistakes. You got your pastors, you got people up front who'll cover you anyway.
Never worry about it. It's obviously very daunting to. Pardon me, excuse me. It's very daunting for a lot of people because, like you say, they believe they're really out of their depth with dealing with stuff. And it's not life and death situation, like you said. That's explaining. It's not a life and death. If the things don't work, things don't work. There's some things you can't fix. Okay. The lights don't work. Sorry, the lights ain't working for this part of the service. And you deal with it. You deal with after.
You don't need to stress out on a Sunday or Saturday or whenever the service is. It's not a life or death situation. No, you can come back and you can fix it.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: One of your things is you ask you why you're going to serve, but then after a service, would you get your team together and go, okay, what worked, what didn't work, what can do better? Is that an element of building a team up, as in their confidence to go, okay, we've done the service. What worked, what didn't work, what can we improve?
And you'll be open for the feedback.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: You've got to be open to feedback. You cannot shut yourself off as a leader and think you're doing the right thing, because if you're going down that road of you're believing you're doing the right thing, eventually you'll get caught out and it can all go wrong in some form or another. You can lose your team, you can lose this. People are just like, you got to be open. You got to be in very open book as a leader.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: So it's an authenticity then, to your team building.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Yes.
Like I say, it's got to be an open book.
It's daunting, because even, like I say, in a work position or whatever, you're obviously getting paid more for being a leader. And people, your bosses or whatever, are expecting more or whatever. But in reality, if you're an open book, you won't be a great leader unless you've got a great team. I know it sounds you're a great leader because you got a great team, but the end of the day, it isn't you that gets whatever done. It's your team.
So if you haven't got a great guide, it's like me and you, my dear. I'm the great man, but I've got a great woman behind me. So, like, 29 years, it's a two way street. It's. Both of us make decisions in this relationship.
So some things have gone terribly wrong, some things have gone great, but we're still here. We're still kicking. It's like team, dear, it's fist bump, not fist bumping you.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: No, we're not doing that.
So, as you know, my bookshelf is full of leadership books, and one of them is the heart of leadership, the three building blocks for every leader. And it's by Tim Hawkins, and it's a really good book. And he talks about the importance of building a team. And one of the most important jobs as a leader is actually building teams. And this quote I'm going to read out, and then I'll just want you to speak into it, Philip.
He says, one of the tests of a genuine leader is that you can build a leadership team. You're not a leader because you can attract followers. You're a leader because you can develop other leaders. So when you look at people, any team that you're in, are you saying, I'm going to make everyone a leader? Because our saying is every good leader does himself out of a position and out of a job.
So when you have a team, do you, like Tim Hawkins, say, you are building them up as leaders so then they can lead others?
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: That was a very short answer to a very long question.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I know.
I need time to think. No. Yes.
Like I say, you've got to be, want to be. You don't want to be. Let's figure this. Where are you saying, Philip? Sorry, guys, you're going to be on longer than your normal 15 minutes.
Everybody is capable of being a leader. And maybe that's probably what we're doing in this world, is making too many leaders. What's the saying? Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. We're in a world of, you lead. I. You can lead or you can lead. In reality, everybody's a leader. You don't need that title.
That's why you get away from that.
Because the title leader is basically, somebody is taking responsibility. Somebody has to accept responsibility. I. E. You're doing a job or something's going to happen.
Somebody has to take responsibility. Somebody has to make ultimate decisions. Sometimes that some people. Yes, we delve into that. You go into those type of realms in a church environment or even in a workplace, the guy in charge or the leader, like I say, in reality, if he's got everybody, the people who are with him or her, if they're all capable of doing, like I say, doing yourself out of a job. Correct. Should be capable of doing your job, be capable of making your decisions.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: And you're not feeling threatened by that.
That's what I'm saying. A good leader would not feel threatened by it, would they? They're like, yes, I want to build you up as much as I can, and if you surpass me, then, and your light shines brighter, great.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: That's where it comes down to, like you said, that question of why do you do it? I'm in two spheres here. The workplace or the whatever people want to be solely getting to a place, so they'll move on as they do.
And if people want to go and go up the ladder, they'll get up the ladder. There's nothing I can do about it. I'll help them on the way.
Okay. And it's good to see them.
You hope that they take in a workplace environment, you hope that discipleship or what you've shown on the way, when they move into that position, they implement it. They show that same type of foot. They never forget how they were. Yes. I mean, it's come the old days of apprenticeships or whatever, when an apprentice was really treated back years and years and years ago. You hear the stories of apprenticeships. Really, making was like a real treated, not fairly or unfairly, you know, I mean, different.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: We're in a different good in some aspects, different culture. Yeah.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Would you treat nowadays, nowadays, obviously, we can't treat people the same way, which is a good thing. Yes, but there's always going to be leaders who are going to just go, I'd say they're obsessed. The position, the title or whatever, you can change them. But I deal with the now deal with the calling is like, well, okay, God, I'm here to make a team.
Holy spirit, come to me now, how are we going to talk? How's it going to work? And I deal in that same sphere, like you said, I think I didn't answer it there, actually, when you said about what do I do after. After a service or whatever, being like, say, with the name, the service finishes on a Sunday. Doesn't mean I don't see the guys till next Sunday. Used to meet up for games, nights, coffees, go out for a meal, organize team meals or stuff like that. It's that community building up. A community building up. Because your team doesn't just devolve on a Sunday. Your team is every day, like you say, is still every day of the week.
Same in the workspace. Use the meet up regularly, go out for a meal.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: For morale, isn't it?
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Well, you come out of the workspace instead of going to home, going to work. You come out, have a few drinks.
I know some people won't agree with that, but you come into their level, or they're coming to your level as well.
They acknowledge they know what you're like.
I mean, the amount of times you're a Christian, but you like me for who I am, and I'm like, yeah, I've got no problem. And they even know some of my faults, dear, as well.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: Same as me.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah, they know more faults than you do.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: But it's that whole, isn't it? But we tell a different story.
Like you mentioned the workplace and church, but from your church experience and your walk with God and your Christianity, it's saying, I build teams in the workplace, but there's something different about how you do it is you're going, yeah, but I tell a different story because I'm for you. Because not everyone who builds teams is probably for people, but like you've just said over this conversation is you ask the why of why you want to serve. You come alongside them, you disciple them, you do community with them.
So that's you telling a different story. That's you saying, my leadership is telling a different story. Because at the end of the day, it's mentoring and disciple people, isn't it? Because not everyone's going to be on the team forever, but then they can take all what you've taught them, like you said, and I hope they take it, and then they can put it in another area of church or workplace or wherever the team is. And you say, yeah, all what I've poured into you now you go and pour that into somebody else.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: Well, it's like you sprinkle, like we're called to sprinkle with salt and dash that little bit of light and loose that little bit of water of understanding.
Not literally, you don't have to smash them with a bible, but they watch you, watch your attitudes and watch you. It's that you can sort of, like, you'd never know that they'll walk away and that person would have been probably at rock bottom or had no belief in themselves or whatever, had no esteem. And you've over a period of time, because it doesn't happen in a day, it doesn't happen in a week. It could take a year, it could take two years. Yeah, but it's that continuous.
Some people say it sounds fair. It is love in some form. It's love, it's acceptance, it's consistency. It is a consistency.
It's bloody hard for a lot of people.
People are going to make mistakes along the way. Yeah. If you're in charge in a role and it's going wrong, like you say, you're the one where the book stops.
And if the people below you have made mistakes.
I've never gone back and given grief. I take the book, it deals with me, and then we just go over the conversation. Then the people that know they've made the mistakes. And like I say, when you build that team environment, sorry, they put the hand up straight away, they'll go, yeah, that was my fault. It won't happen because you give them.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: Space to make a mistake. You give that space to go. It's safe.
I can do that.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: The words grace, dear Grace.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Or you always throw the grace card.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: No, apparently I don't. That's what.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: No, I do. I'm saying I throw the grace card to me.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Yes. And I've passed that grace card.
You don't achieve nothing.
You don't achieve anything wherever you are. When you're in a leadership position, you don't achieve anything by passing it downwards onto your team. The team know, the team will know you've either absorbed it or whatever.
It's not worth passing on. And they see that, they realize that.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: And they can, as in pulling them up for they've done something. You just take, you absorb that and go, okay, what can we do better?
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Correct. It's the only way you can move on is what did we do wrong?
Like you said, the lights. If we've done on the creative team, if someone's gone on, oh, what happened? You can have a little. What happened? Oh, this was this. Okay, what do you think we could do? Like you say, you have that conversation. What might not stop that. There might not be anything to stop it. Everybody's had to talk. Okay, no worries.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just one of things.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Well, I just want to finish off the conversation with just Romans 16. And I think it doesn't get highlighted as much as it should because it's actually when I'm talking about teams and we tell a different story.
Romans 16 is actually Turtus is writing a letter from Paul, but he addresses all these people in the ministry. So there's Phoebe and Rufus and Julia and there's just this long list of names and we sort of skip over all these names and just. Yeah, that's great, great. But he's really championing them and he's really cheering them on and he's saying, all these people and it's not just me. The apostle Paul, all these people are the ones. Don't forget them. These are the ones who have pushed the ministry forward and they've done so much for me, for Paul personally.
And he's like, I owe my thanks to them and this is what they've done.
And he gives their regards because obviously it's their letter. But I just want to finish Philip on the one thing that Paul is acknowledging, that it's not just him as the leader.
He actually highlights every single person in his team and in his ministry.
So how do you really put that value in people and say, I see you, you are seen, and I value you?
Just wrap it up in just a little sentence to say, this is how I see you and value you and how the apostle Paul has written all these things to these people to say because we always acknowledge the leader but then the know, he brings the team up, he puts himself lower angles because hey, here's the can't. Because like you said, there's no I in team. We can't do these things on our own. And if you're going to be a leader and you got no team beyond you, then you're just on your own, aren't you?
So how in essence, being a great team builder that you are, how can you help someone who's listening today who just needs that little bit of nugget of wisdom to just go, I get everything you've said, how do I be the great team builder and acknowledge all my team and make sure they're acknowledged too and they're seen.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: I suppose it's being humble really in yourself and having the stability in yourself and the confidence to know who you are, such as I am. I know I am a child of God. So no matter what or who or where or whatever goes on in my life, my victory has already won.
And with anybody who wanted to be like you say, wanted to build a team, the only thing I can say feel is forget your position, forget what it is. If you're out there and you're I'm the leader, I'll make sure this, I get everything done then unfortunately, you're not probably doing it for the right reason.
Yeah, it's not what you've probably been. Your calling is not for that. It's actually taking time out on the people in your team, the people you can bring into your team, and it's building that community relationship.
Not everybody's going to want to join your team, but it's building that community and relationship with people. We're called to be a community. We're called to have relationships with everybody. So if you think like that, you're already doing the great commission, you're already evangelizing, you're already, like I said, it's the salt and the light. You're doing that and you're in a position, somebody's given you that position.
It's not necessarily a God thing that you got that position, but somebody's given you a position. So if somebody's given you that position, then use it to God's advantage.
Use it for God. Use it to get to know people, get out there, take that step of faith and step out of that boat. And actually, hey, I'm Phil or Wendy.
I'm such and such is this in team? How do you like to have a coffee? How would you like to go for a meal? How's your week been? It's actually that speaking and actually communicating and having a conversation.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: Because that conversation, basically putting them first then the serving, isn't it? It's not saying I'm not hanging around you because you serve on my team. You're saying I'm hanging around with you because I want to get to know you.
[00:39:55] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: The team building in the serving is like the end thing, isn't it? First of all, I want to get to know you.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
If you're thinking it's just the Sunday, then we're not doing what probably we should be doing, such as it should be, as I personally see it, churches every day of the week. Yeah, it's a. It's not just a Sunday. Sunday service. It's a great start point. It's a great booster. But it's that community and building communities. We're becoming an isolated community. A lot insular.
The world is becoming just me.
We're going that way.
Let's take it back. Let's take hold. Let's go back and have, hey, I'm interested in you. I want to hear about you, not you want to hear about me.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
I love it. I love it. Well, thank you, dear.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: There's something I've got to do because obviously we bought this. Here we go. I'm playing with stuff.
I've just always wanted to play with some buttons, my dear. All right, hang on, hang on. It's been a while. Hang on.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Oh, there we go. Look, we've got an applause. Yes, they like it, obviously.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: There you go. And if anybody lasted this long, you got the Sadrambo because that's me being booted.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: I tell you. I hope you've got a lot out of this conversation I'm putting in again.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Happy 29th wedding anniversary, dear.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Oh, thank you.
[00:41:44] Speaker A: I'm sure we could have done other things on our 29th wedding anniversary.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Well, we are going out for dinner later, which is very nice.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: It's very nice.
So thank you, dear, for stepping out of your comfort zone. Because Philip is very much the behind the scenes and I'm the frontman, if you want to put it that way. So I'm sure you're going to take away a nugget of wisdom today. If you're team building, if you're a leader, if you just want to disciple and mentor people, I'm sure what Philip has shared today is going to be gold in your walk with discipling so thanks for listening, and I really hope he's got the right button at the end, but I really hope, and I hadn't. I was watching him.
I was like, you're going to press the wrong button.
Okay. Anyway, I hope you had fun and listening to me and Philip.
And thank you for listening again, and I will catch you next time.
Thanks for listening. To catch all the ladies from me, you can subscribe to my website, thebigvoiceonline.com, or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parkov, writer see you soon.
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