Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: It.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Experiencing a small, contained faith, tired of settling for less. Well, this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room because you were made for bigger things.
You our well, hey there, and welcome to this week's spacious room. Leaders talk. And today I have a really special guest. She is my good friend, Elizabeth Chapman. She is a wife, a mother, an author, and she is founder of Doll Ministries. And I'm so excited to welcome Elizabeth onto the spacious room. Hello, my friend.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Oh, you are so welcome. You are so welcome.
I invited you on because you have such wisdom when it comes to leadership. And I wanted to talk this week about the importance of being in God's presence. And I know you have learnt that over the years we've known each other. And I just thought Jethro was a good person in the Bible, who is obviously Moses's father in law to talk about. So I know you study the word really well.
So what are your thoughts on Jethro? When I said, let's talk about Jethro, what were your first thoughts?
[00:01:54] Speaker A: My first thoughts? Okay. So it took me immediately to Exodus 18 when Jethro visits Moses. So Moses has just had this massive red sea moment, and he's on the other side, and his wife and children are being brought to him. And so it tells this account of Jethro coming to see him at this point of time. And what I love is that the Red Sea moment, it was for the Israelites, but it also traveled far and wide. And so Jethro hearing about all of this like he's from midian, he worships different gods, not the one true God. And so he is then affected by what has happened to the Israelites. And what I love is that he kind of goes on this journey himself after hearing that. And it heads into him actually speaking life into Moses, who we know, know one of the Bible greats, Moses, Elijah, people like that. But Jethro actually has the opportunity to speak life into Moses and to give him practical wisdom in what he's doing. But the reason he can do that is because he has been in the presence of God, which is what we see in chapter 18, that after he has heard all of this, everything that God has done for the Israelites and for Moses, that he has brought them out of Egypt and all the wonders that he did there. And then, of course, the big Red Sea moment, Jethro then turns around and he's like, now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods. And from that point, he then goes and offers sacrifices to the one true God, to the God of Moses, to the God of Abraham. And there's just this massive switch in Jethro that he's gone from worshipping other gods to worshiping the true God to then coming into the presence of God with the elders and with Aaron. So people who are significant and who are fellow priests and actually, from that experience, being able to encourage Moses in what he's doing. So I just think that whole shift that happens in such a small space of time in the chapter, but it's just this incredible, just a transformation of Jethro's life, that he is then able to guide Moses in return.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that thought, Elizabeth, because we always say, oh, Jethro. Yeah, he's the one. That was Moses's father in law and he helped Moses delegate. However, Jethro is.
He's so much more than know. He's an insightful leader, he's a wise counselor, he's a priest.
He is just this person who we can really tap into leadership skills and insights.
And, yeah, I love it that we're studying, talking about Jethro, because he really needs to. Because Moses, we can be like, oh, Moses is this, this and this. But it's the people who go along that journey with him who need to be highlighted. Know, because we're not islands as know. It's not just us, it's the people around us and it's the counselors and the insightful conversations we have with other leaders. And that iron sharpens iron.
We can do that.
And I'm so glad you touched on that. Jethro knew the importance of being in the presence of God because it's so important, isn't it, in leadership?
Because if we are constantly giving out, giving out, giving out, how are we going to fill ourselves up?
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Just touch on that. Because you talk a lot about when we have our conversations about, you can't do things from an empty cup. And you've got to learn to keep coming into the presence of God so we can be filled, so we can then pour it out. How do you think Jethro, how do you think he teaches other leaders to do that? How do you cultivate a time in your faith when you're busy as a leader? Because leaders, they do lots of things. We have many hats. But how do you purposely, intentionally cultivate time of being in the presence of God?
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we're certainly not going to find time. We need to actually make the time to be able to do that and offering sacrifices. It's not a quick five minute prayer. Read a Bible verse that popped up on my phone. All right, I'm set for the day. It's not that kind of thing. There's a lot of, as you said, intention. That intentionality that goes into preparing this sacrifice and building the altar and all of those things in order to come into the presence of God and to worship God. So with us, that can look like carving out time in our day and giving structure to our day, getting up that bit earlier, sacrificing sleep and things like that, so that we can actually be in the presence of God and start our day with him, because his mercies are new every morning.
And filling that cup is so important. Like, as a mother particularly, I have learned this, that I need thee every hour. That's like my theme song.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Especially with kids under.
How old is your kids?
[00:08:36] Speaker A: Yes, I have a three and a half year old and my daughter is almost six months.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's a pretty full on time in motherhood.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. And it takes all of your patience and all of that and to be able to be the mother that I want to be. I quite often tell my son that mummy needs Jesus time because that makes her a better mummy.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I love that.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: He might not understand that now, but that's me filling up my cup, spending time with him in his presence. And for a leader, whether it's leadership within the family or leadership in church or on other levels, it's a little bit like a watering can.
So if the watering can is filled and it is overflowing, then it's literally overflowing to the plants around it, and it's pouring into life around it. And a lot of those flowers and those veggies and whatever you have growing around you are probably going to be a lot shinier than you, a lot prettier than a watering can. But if we don't allow ourselves to be filled up with his presence, how are we going to appreciate the beauty of those leaders who are rising up around us? And to see God move through them and through the outpouring of what he's doing in us, to be able to see that fruit in other people? Like, what a blessing, to be able to witness that. And regardless, the rain will come and we'll water those plants. But it could be the difference between them getting by and them really thriving because they've been fed, they've been watered, they've been poured into. And I know so many people over the years have poured into my life. And doll ministries has not come from me. It's been from the holy spirit and it's been from God bringing people into my life who have encouraged me. And you have been one of these people, Wendy, that has spoken into my life and been like, this isn't just something small, this is something that God is raising up. And so people who have spoken into my life, Dole ministries is a fruit from that.
And I just think that's beautiful, that what God pours into us then flows out of us and can just go further than we can ever mean.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: You know, I just think of the dead sea, how it doesn't give out and so it can't come back. Know, we have to be that flow of the river. And I love when you touch on about doll ministries and the whole ethos of what doll ministries actually is. So it's daughters of love and light, and your heart is to just equip and empower women of all ages to just rise up into who God has called them to be. So they know who they are and who they are and just rise up. And I love it that you are a leader who doesn't get insecure about someone, their star is going to shine brighter, or because you have this sense of, I'm going to sit under God's presence all the time and you keep filling your cup up. I find over the years in leadership, you can see when people, their insecurities come in and it's like, oh, your star is going to shine brighter than mine. I have to limit you. I have to cap you so you don't get higher than me. And I think that's because they probably haven't learnt to spend quality time with God, because when you do and when he says, this is who you are, you want to empower and equip and you are cheering people on. When they get whatever God's got gifted for them, whatever purpose they are, you're like, yes, I want you to go higher than me, to be wider than me, to be a bigger leader than me. And that is such the essence of a good leader who has learnt to the importance of being in God's presence first, because like you said, you're the watering can and other flowers are going to be more beautiful. I mean, we've all got our favorite flowers, or you go, I'm not so keen on those ones and different colors, but the whole garden together looks beautiful.
I want to speak into this about Jethro, because you've touched on something about the watering cannon, the gardening, because we both love gardening, right? Yes, we love pottering around.
This is what some leaders do, just for a little bit of downtime, but it's a thinking time and it's spending time in God's creation and all that. But if we go right back to, we were talking about Exodus 18, we read those verses about Jethro delegating and saying to Moses, you're going to burn out. And all that in the text, in the voice translation, Jethro says to Moses, what you're doing is not good for you. So we're like, yeah, tick. That's the leadership thing, right? Yeah, what you're doing is not good. The responsibility is just too much. Tick. Yep, you're going to get burnt out. We get that. And then he says, you're going to wear yourself out. We're like, yeah, tick. Yeah, we get all them. However, we don't. Continue reading on. And this is the bit that really stuck out to me. Not only that, you're going to wear the people out, too.
And I was like, yes, that's what we do. We not only wear ourselves out, we wear the other people out around us, too, because we're running around like a headless chicken trying to do everything.
And when you're trying to do everything and your cup is empty and you're not spending time in the presence of God. Going back to the garden analogy, those plants are going to start to suffer.
They're going to start shriveling up and they're not going to look at their best.
And that whole, you fill your cup and then we can fill other people's cup. And Jethro was so good at seeing that, that he's like, Moses, you are going to weigh yourself out. It's too much responsibility. Delegate, delegate, delegate. However, you must delegate, because it's going to help the other people around you, too.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Empowering them.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Absolutely.
What a great thing. Because I think going back to Exodus two, we flip right back to the start of Moses's story.
This is where Jethro comes in. He's the father in law, because he says to his daughters, they're like, this man helped us at the well. And he's like, why are you not inviting him to lunch? Bring him over. And that whole hospitality in the Old Testament was massive. It's always welcome strangers in, always Jesus. That's why he welcomes everyone at the table. It's all about hospitality. And then Moses ends up, he says, mean, I'm putting it in Wendy's terms. Here's a daughter would you like to marry her? Yep. And then he becomes the father in law. But it was all those years before he had that burning Bush moment in the desert that Jethro is probably watching him, mentoring him, helping him, because to get to Exodus 18, and then Moses says, yeah, he said, moses accepts Jethro's advice. You got to have some rungs on the board for that, right?
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Oh, definitely.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: This Jethro comes along, and Moses, as great as he is, he's got to, like you said, pour into someone.
Jethro poured into Moses in them 40 years of the desert moments, and watched him being a shepherd and watched him look after his flocks and watched all that. And then when he came, when Moses had done all his coming out of Egypt thing, he's looking at him thinking, what's going on?
You need to delegate.
You need to empower these people.
And I love that he learned to be a shepherd first.
He learnt to care for a flock.
And I think, as leader, we have a big responsibility to care for people who are under us.
Like you do with the doll ministries, authors. You look after us, because I'm one of the authors. You look after us.
You like that watering can. You tend to your garden, and you make sure the flowers. And you're not scared that the flowers are brighter or whatever, better, or you're just like, yes, I'm going to fertilize and water. And Jethro was so that to Moses, but he wasn't scared to speak the truth either. And I think that's a thing in leadership. What do you think?
How you get on a level and you put the wrongs on the board, because you allow me to speak truth into you and you do it to me. And it's that trust and respect and honor, but it comes both ways. And I think some leaders, they want the trust, the respect and the honor, but they're not willing to give it back.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: Well, and as well, I think it comes down to what Philip said last week about coming alongside people and doing life with them. And so that's what Jethro did with Moses. He was doing life with him throughout that period. So that you're right. When he got to that time when they were reunited after the Red Sea moment, when he did speak into Moses's life and gave him sound advice, Moses took it on board.
And it's funny, because Moses has had his moments where he hasn't wanted to take orders.
He's like, oh, choose someone else.
This time, he's not only stepping up to the plate he's burning himself out. And someone's actually had to come in and be like, hey, you need to start delegating. And it's someone he trusts, someone he has history with, and someone who has his heart.
And I think that's what it comes down to, is, for instance, I trust where you're coming from when you give me advice, because I know you have my heart.
I know you love me. I know that we have a friendship that is so special. And so I know that when you're giving me advice, that I can take that on board, because I know that you want what's best for me. And I know that because of our history. As you said, jethro has this history with Moses when it comes to this moment, and he does speak into him. Moses is. Yep, yep. Yeah, I see where you're coming from, because you have my.
So we have this beautiful moment where Jethro has this relationship with Moses throughout this time as his father in law. But then once he's been in the presence of God, he can actually rise up and be like, hey, you're going to burn yourself out. Not only you, but everyone else, because you're running around. You can't give these people what they need right now, and you need a team to be able to do that. And it's not to say that Moses shied away from work or anything like that, because Jethro was like, look, all the hard stuff is still going to come to you, but you need to delegate. And. Yeah. So Jethro being able to speak that into Moses was, as you said, 40 years in the making.
I just think that's amazing.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Because being in the desert and having all that time and then going looking after, it was like million people, wasn't it? And I love it how it says they queued up to go and talk to Moses. I'm like, oh, my gosh. It would have been months.
See, I'm English. I know what it's like to queue. We just queue for anything and we're standing in queues going, what are we queuing for? I don't know. Nobody knows what the.
We're so accommodating and so organized. And it's not like a rabble, it's just, if you see a queue, people, most likely it's full of english people just join.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: There's bound to be something good on the end.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah. If there's a queue, there's something good.
Your husband is a barista and a coffee shop, and you don't go to the coffee shops that haven't got the queues right.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: You go to the ones with the queues. And this is. The Israelites know they were probably in that queue. I mean, I would have forgotten what I was going to ask Moses by the time I got to.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: Oh, we've actually sorted the problem. Thanks.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Absolutely. And that is brilliant, Elizabeth, because when Jethro says, delegate the people around you, he probably was in this queue and he's listening to them all figuring it, you know, a month later, when they finally get to Moses, he's like, oh, no. Yeah. I'm all.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: You know. Then you've got these people who he says to choose men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest game. So you've got these people just waiting there, just not being able to tap into their potential because all of the load is going to Moses, whereas they're probably sitting around not doing a whole lot, being like, oh, well, what's our purpose? How can we serve in this?
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Moses has got the burning bush moment and what are we doing? Yeah, absolutely.
I want to touch on this delegation, the empowering dedication delegation.
I spoke about it with Philip the other week about the heart of leadership book by Tim Hawkins, and he touches on delegation, and I just want to read a little quote out of it and we can speak into this. But he says, the problem with delegating is that sometimes it can just end up as dumping. That is, you hang on to all the bits of your job that you enjoy doing and you dump onto someone else all the parts of your job that you can't stand doing. Here's the problem with this dumping approach. It will never raise up strong leaders around you. True. Delegation will always empower people.
That is so good, isn't it? Because when leaders hear, I'm going to delegate, you're like, oh, great, I'm going to get all the jobs that you don't want. And I have seen this happen.
And then what you get is this culture of a gap forming, because the. The leader who's delegating or dumping, they think it's delegating, but they're dumping all the jobs that they don't want to do onto the interns and the people who are, let's say, beneath them or they think are beneath them, then they get this christian celebrity thing about them. It's like, oh, and everyone looks to them on the platform, but really it's the people behind them that are making them look good.
A lot of leaders do acknowledge that, but some it's just, yeah, look, I've got all the great jobs and then I look good. And then what happens is that gap and that culture of the gap forming. Then it goes like Jethro said. It said it's not good for the people. Then resentment kicks in because you're like, well, if that person's doing that job, that person's doing that job, that person's doing that job, that job, that job, that job. And the leader who's delegating is just on doing the great stuff. Resentment kicks in because you're like, okay, so what are you doing?
What are you doing? And for me, I'm not impressed by how great a leader is on the platform. Right.
I'm more impressed when a leader comes alongside someone who they lead.
The delegation is not dumping.
It's not about giving your team underneath you jobs.
So you can just go and sit in the corner and check out your social media.
It's that empowering and equipping. And it all circles back to the importance of being in God's presence. Because when you're in his presence, like you said before, you've got his heart, and then you've got the heart for people, and then you can pour into people and this delegation and the dumping I've seen so many times, and what happens is good people end up being, going, I'm out. I'm not doing this anymore. Because it's not equipping, empowering them.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: What's your thoughts on that?
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Well, either you lose them or they just don't live up to their potential because they've got so much to give. They've got gifting just the same as the next person.
We know that we've all been given gifts. And so to not be given that opportunity, to thrive in that, to grow in that is just really sad. It's just putting a lid on it and just being like, oh, no, I don't want you to rise that high. I'm just going to give you this job. Even if it doesn't suit your gifts and calling. I think this is better suited for you. And that really comes down as well to that spiritual discernment that you get from that being in God's presence.
Once you've had that time with the Lord, not only do you have that peace to bring into your day and that confidence that you have been called into what God wants you to do, so then you can actually encourage other people in ways that maybe they'll do it better than you and to speak into them so that they can rise up in that role and that you can be like, yeah, go on, you can do this and watch them thrive and bloom in those positions.
And it doesn't mean giving them the leftovers and the jobs that you don't want to do. Like as a receptionist back in the day, I know all about those jobs that people don't want to do. I did a lot of laminating and binding back in my time.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: All those glamorous things.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
And it took a while to be able to step into a role apart from that because people are like, oh, she can actually do this or she can do that. But if all you give them is the jobs that you don't want to do, then they're not going to rise up. And really, when you are in that leadership position, that's what you're meant to be doing. Like all these other big glamorous things. Yeah, step up to the plate, but also find other people to help you with that load. And as it says, like in Exodus 18, it says, the work is too heavy for you. You cannot handle it alone.
There is this calling to be able to encourage other people to rise up, regardless of whether they end up being taller than you or not.
And I'm with you like the shiny person on the platform.
That's all well and good, but if I don't see the fruit of that, if they're not willing to do those mundane tasks and that sort of thing, and if they're just palming those off to whoever they choose without giving it really a sincere thought and prayer about people as well, and praying into that to be like, do you know what? I really sense that the Lord may be directing you into this. Can you go away and pray about it and together be like, hey, I think you could rise up into this.
But then also looking at leadership as serving, that's the key of it, that we see Jesus. He washes the disciples feet.
That wouldn't have been a glamorous thing to do. He's down on the floor. They wear know, it's not like they're all perfumed and all perfect and ready to go. Like he's on the floor washing their feet. And it's having that servant's heart as a leader that it's like, I'm here to serve you. I'm here to.
Let's take doministries, for instance. I'm like, I really want to be able to work with an author, to be able to bring their book to life the way that they envisage it. Like I want to be able to see your vision for this book. And it's about being able to take the focus off ourselves, focus on God, which is being in his presence, is shifting our focus from ourselves and from what we want to do with that time with the flesh, maybe wants to sleep in or whatever we want to do, but to actually direct our focus to God in those moments and be like, do you know what? I'm going to focus on you, because this is not about me, and it shouldn't be about us.
It shouldn't be about us. It should always come back to God. And because we are here to glorify God. So if we are not keeping our eyes on him and keeping our eyes on Jesus all the time, then we are going to fall into those traps that the enemy sets.
That's, you know, you're such a good leader. Don't share that with, oh, what about if they outshine you? Or I think that person's a little bit intimidating.
You better just keep a lid on them, keep a chain on them, make sure they don't go too far.
And whereas that's not God, God has given us a spirit of power and love and a sound mind, and that goes for each of us. We each have his power to rise up within us. So I think the more you can pour into people to be able to live up to their God given potential, the better for so gold right there.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: If you're listening in and you're going, yes, I've took a million notes like I have, then, yeah, this is what Elizabeth does. She speaks life into people. And, you know, talking about if your leadership gets bigger or rises up and we don't get insecure about that.
When you see people like Jesus washing the disciples feet, doesn't it just elevate him more? Because you look at him and you go, oh, my gosh, look, he is the king of kings, and yet he washes his disciples feet. And even the disciples are, you know, you're not washing Peter, isn't it? He goes, no, you're not washing my feet. And he's like, if you can't, you can't be under my know, we've got to do it together.
And the short time that Jesus had with those disciples, he just had to literally pour everything into them. Didn't know.
And that's what we do, isn't it, as leaders. And for you, with doll ministries and the authors you work with, when you delegate and not dump, and when you sit in God's presence and when you say, yeah, come on. I see the book you're envisioning.
You tap into the vision, too, what the author is thinking, too. And you work together as publisher and with author, it makes doll ministries shine even more.
Rather than going back to your gardening thing, you're happy to just water and make those plants flourish. And I think that essence of you as the publisher is soaking in God's presence. It makes doll ministries just flourish and grow even more. And God totally is like, yes, this is it.
Because, like, in society today, like the Israelites back in the Old Testament, we struggle with this idol worship. And if we get that gap between a leader does all the shiny stuff and they look all great, everyone else is looking to them. And like you said, they're not looking to God, they ended up become the be all and end all, because we can fall into that trap of worshipping preachers and leaders.
And when they fall and fail us, which they always will do, God's like, you need to come to me.
You need to get your cup filled from me. Because then when life happens and struggles happen and all that, all the little things about leadership, we can weather that storm well. And your plants, your garden after the storm is just gonna survive. It's gonna thrive, and it's gonna have. And you talked about it earlier then, roots getting deeper, and that's what it's all about.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: So this talk about from, from just the little parts, because he's not in the story, too much of Moses's story, but my gosh, when you start digging into these characters, they just teach you so much. Don't.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: And I really, I noticed this before when we were talking that I really love how Jethro, he's not afraid to be know because he's a priest of midian. He's not just a midianite, he's a priest. So the fact that he has had this massive transformation going from worshipping idols to then saying, now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly. And so he's had this moment of being like, I was wrong, and I was wrong to worship those gods because your God is so much greater because of what he has done. And so I love that as well, that he's not afraid to admit that he's wrong or that he hasn't had it all together, because we're all learning, we're all developing, we're all journeying with Jesus. And so to get to a point to be like, oh, actually, yeah, I am going to take what you're saying on board, or to not be so set in our ways as a leader, to not take on sound advice, or to not be able to witness what the Lord is doing and how the spirit is moving. So in this instance, Jethro has heard of this incredible big Red Sea moment, but then how often do we see that leaders just kind of be like, no, this is the way we're doing it.
That's it. Just kind of being stubborn in what they're doing, rather than just really being open and being like, do you know what? Maybe that isn't the best way to do it. Maybe I need to do it a different way. And so I love that Jethro also represents that.
He's not afraid to be wrong and he's not afraid to say that out loud. That as a priest, as someone quite high up, as someone who has been allowing other people to worship these gods as well, he's turned around and been like, actually, no, that's not right. Scratch all of that. Your God is actually the one true God, and I'm going to worship him. So he's taken that truth. Now that he's been exposed to that truth and he's applied it, he hasn't just settled for what he knows. He hasn't not just been set in his own ways, he's had this revelation given to him by God and he's been like, yeah, do you know what? Your Lord is the one true God. And I'm going to worship with you. Even if I have been a priest of Midian, I'm leaving that behind. I'm going to come and worship your God. And I just love that he's not scared to be wrong.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, the people around him, they gain the trust and the respect and the honor and that whole humbling thing of going, wow, Jethro is father in law to Moses. He's a priest. He's like this insightful leader. He's this. Yet he'll humble himself and go, yeah, I'll put my hand up there. I worship the wrong God. I idol worshipped, rather than worshiping the one true God.
And that's probably where he learnt, Elizabeth, is to get the importance of being in God's presence, because he knew now, oh, that's who I need to worship.
And then have that moment of getting into God's presence. And it just speaks volumes of who Jethro was as a person. And, yeah, hopefully, if you're listening in, you have learned so much about Jethro and how delegating and not dumping and how the importance of being in God's presence.
So just wrapping up, Elizabeth, I just want your final thoughts on the importance of being in God's presence. And how important is it for a leader to fill their cup up first before they start pouring out into others and then going back? That's what we forget to do. We forget to go back into God's presence and fill up again. Like we talked about that river and talking about filling up the watering can. The watering can eventually dry.
All the water is gone, but you got to go and refill it to come back and make the plants flourish.
You said the rain comes.
The rain does come, but we can't just rely on that. We have to be intentional to fill the can up to water the plants. So I just want your final thoughts on Jethro and the importance of God's presence and just give a little nugget of wisdom that someone is listening just to go, yes, that is good. That's important.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: And I guess in this situation, like Jethro is, of course, speaking into Moses. So for Moses here, he's also being malleable to be able to be spoken into. So I think that's a really important thing, too.
But that has only happened because Jethro has built that relationship with Moses. And so again, it comes back to that, coming alongside people and pouring into them, not just once or twice, but actually doing life together. And I know with coming back to the watering can analogy with my watering can, it actually has a slight little, like almost a roof over the main part. So if you're just relying on the rain, it's not going to fill it. You need to actually soak. And only when you soak will you have enough water in there, not only to fill yourself, but to overflow and pour into others. And that's the beautiful thing as well, is that when you approach leadership with that kind of heart, your fills yourself. I remember I said to my husband the other day that I was doing some Dole ministries work and I left and I was like, oh, my goodness, that has been life giving to me.
And I think when we are able to soak in the Lord's presence and actually make time for that to carve out, because time is the most precious resource and commodity we have. Like, it goes and it never comes back. And so to give that to the Lord, to give him the first fruits of our day, however we can make that work, to be able to just center ourselves on him and to declare that we have our complete reliance on him and his living water to be able to fill us that we can pour into other people. And so I think it's just so important to be able to make that time, to make that choice, to be intentional about it, because it won't just happen. You can't just say, oh, yeah, I'm going to get up in the morning and not set an alarm, for instance, it takes that intentionality to fill up the watering can so that it is overflowing, so that it is pouring out into others. It takes that intentional thought and decision.
Yes. First of all, we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, but then we journey with him every day. It's just like Jethro. He was journeying with Moses, and because he was journeying with Moses, he could then impact Moses. And when we journey with the Lord, he can impact us. And so we can be like, oh, give me a word, or, I'm praying about this half heartedly. But do we actually soak in his presence and listen? It's all well and good to make requests of God. And he wants to hear from us. He wants our requests. But he also wants Sela, that beautiful word in the psalms that after or midway through a psalm, it says, pause in his presence. He wants us to do that. Why would it say it so much in the psalms if it wasn't something we needed?
I love the psalms. It's probably one of my favorite books of the Bible. And so going through the psalms and then seeing that word seal it and it's just, okay, pause in the presence of God. And if we don't do that, we just go, go.
And we're pouring from, and we're gradually just getting empty and running on empty. And we know that nothing works well when it's running on empty.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: So we need to be able to pause in his presence and to be filled up in order for others to thrive around us, but also for us to be filled, because if we don't, we're not living the abundant life we're living with that mindset of scarcity, and we're just not going to thrive. And ultimately, isn't that what we all want? We want to be able to thrive. We want to be able to live from a place that is anchored in.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: It's been. It's been such a good conversation. This really has. I hope you all listening have got so much out of mean. We could talk forever about leadership and all that. However, we've got to wrap this up. But I just want to say, elizabeth, thank you so much for joining me in the spacious room. And I just pray that doll ministries is just going to thrive and grow and everything what you've said is just, that's the foundation of it all.
So I just want to say thank you so much for pouring into people and for raising them up. And you're not scared to cheer people on and let their star shine brighter. And you're like, yes, come on. And I love that. So thank you. I love you. And yeah, just thank you so much. Thank you.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Thank you for having me.
[00:48:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Love you, my friend.
[00:48:29] Speaker B: Love you, too.
Thanks for listening. To catch all the ladies from me, you can subscribe to my website, thebigvoiceonline.com, or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parkofriter see you soon.
