Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Wendy parker: Experiencing a small, contained faith. Tired of settling for less. Well, this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room because you were made for bigger things.
Well, hey there and welcome to the spacious Room Leaders Talk podcast. My name is Wendy Parker and I want to welcome you. Today after a very long break, I'm excited to be kicking off leadership conversations around the fruit of the spirit found in Galatians 5. 22.
And today's conversation is about the fruit of love with my special guest artist, Kirsty Nielsen. Now, Kirsty hails from Northern Beaches in New South Wales, Australia, and is an accomplished artist who is known for her captivating and emotive paintings.
Her work has been recognised through prestigious Australian art prizes, including four time finalist of the Archibald Prize, Portuguese Memorial Award, Darling Portrait Prize and the Mossman Art Prize. And Kirsty's reputation as a fine portrait and landscape artist has given her opportunities to paint some recognizable faces, including Ida butt Rose, Gary McDonald, Rachel Ward and Christine Manfield, to name just a very small selection. And Kirsty is currently represented by Nanda Hobbs Contemporary in Sydney. And Kirsty's passion for truth and justice, it goes way beyond the canvas as she utilizes her gift of art and creativity to many humanitarian projects, including being an ambassador for the Barbara May Foundation. And she works alongside projects like Esther's Voice in Cambodia, where she helps to heal girls rescued from sex trafficking through her art therapy. Kirstine Nielsen is such a powerful combination that inspires others through her art and actions. And today's episode, we are going to talk about the fruit of God's love and its strength found in God's love.
So it is my great pleasure to welcome Kirsty to the spacious room.
[00:02:56] Kirsty Neilson: Hello.
Hi, Wendy.
Thank you for having me.
[00:03:02] Wendy parker: Oh, you are so welcome. And I first need to say that we've only met a couple of times. However, each time I see you, I come away from conversations with you and I feel like I can tackle a lion and a bear there because you have such a wonderful way of inspiring others, but you encourage them to rise higher. And this is the reason why I've invited you onto my podcast, because my listeners are just gonna.
I want you to lean in, take notes, glean from Kirstie's wisdom because you are an amazing woman, Kirsty.
[00:03:38] Kirsty Neilson: Oh, thank you. No, I feel the same, Wendy. Every time we. We leave each other, it's like. Or every time I see you, it's like seeing an old friend. I feel like I've known you for years. So I'm. It's.
I, Yeah, I just, I think the world of you and I think this podcast is amazing. So I'm. Yeah, I'm thrilled that we're now friends.
[00:03:54] Wendy parker: Oh, me too. Me too. So, share with my listeners. What does life look like for Kirsten Nielsen in this season?
[00:04:04] Kirsty Neilson: Well, look, my life is great. I live on the northern beaches in Sydney, as you mentioned.
I have. I've actually got a brand new art studio which I absolutely love, which is in Balgowa.
So I just needed a bigger space and somewhere where my art practice could really grow and develop and kind of go to the next level. I'd kind of really outgrown my last spot. So, yeah, this is really just allowing me to take off and I'm already doing really, like, much more ambitious work than I would have been able to do in my old studio. So I'm really blessed and thankful that I've got this new, incredible space.
But, yeah, my.
What else?
Just, I want to be more diligent in this season. I think that's something else I really want to, like, substrieve for this year, just in terms of health, exercise, resting properly, getting on top of my sleep, which, you know, I've struggled with insomnia in the past and things like that. But I mean, this year I really started off with thinking of the scripture, Matthew 6. 33, which says, Seek first the kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be given to you as well.
And that really is my scripture for this year. So that's kind of where I'm at and, yeah, sort of this year. And what I'm really trying to hold on to and let go of sort of, you know, wanting to do things either my way or being dictated by being led by my. More my flesh and my feelings rather than like faith and God's purpose in my life. So I'm really. That's something I'm sort of. Yeah, I'm focusing on this year. Anytime where I, you know, have a little flesh moment or have a human moment, I'm like, seek first the kingdom. Like, seek first the kingdom and everything else to be added, like shifting that mindset. So, yeah, that's kind of what life is looking like for me at the moment.
[00:05:57] Wendy parker: Yeah. No, I love that. I love that self reflection, Kirsty, where you're like, hold on a minute.
Something.
[00:06:03] Kirsty Neilson: Yes.
[00:06:04] Wendy parker: You know, going off the rails. I need to. I need to come back and. Yeah, seek first the kingdom and then it all sort of falls into place.
[00:06:13] Kirsty Neilson: Yes.
[00:06:14] Wendy parker: Yeah. And. And it's the same as, you know, what we're talking about the fruit of the spirit. And if we're not connected to the vine Jesus, then, then it. We can't bear the fruit and we can't seek the kingdom first. And we, we do it everything in our own strength. And yeah, we get worn out. So I love, I love the fact that you just take time to go, wait a minute, something is not right and not ignore it.
[00:06:44] Kirsty Neilson: Yes, totally. And especially, you know, past disappointments and you know, that like plagues your heart, like that really becomes. Can become concrete, you know, in you. And you've got to let go of that and the way you think your life should go and the way, you know, maybe certain dreams or desires that you have, but it's actually just surrendering and letting go and just saying, God, I truly give it to you. You know, that's why I was like, you've got to seek first the kingdom, Kirsty. You can't keep seeking first yourself. You know, it's a choice. You have to choose, choose the kingdom. So, yeah, it's something that's important for all of us, isn't it?
[00:07:22] Wendy parker: Yeah. And we're all a work in progress, right? Right. Kirsty, we never totally, we never get it, all right? We. Until we graduate to heaven, you know.
[00:07:29] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, exactly.
[00:07:32] Wendy parker: Hopefully it's not anytime soon, right?
[00:07:34] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, yeah. That's a long time away.
[00:07:38] Wendy parker: So we are talking obviously about the fruit of love. And I'm just going to read out Galatians 5, 22 and it says, but the fruit of the Spirit is love, trust, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
And I feel Paul put love right at the top of the list because we cannot grow the other fruits in our connection with Jesus divine until we first have love.
So what are your thoughts, Kirsty, around the fruits of the Spirit, but especially the fruit of love?
[00:08:17] Kirsty Neilson: I mean, yeah, like you just said, love is first and it, it makes sense, doesn't it? Because love is the one thing that changes everything.
So it really needs to have that anchor of first place in that, in that list of beautiful things that are the fruits of the Spirit.
But look, this specific love in this scripture translates from the Greek word agape, which is, expresses the highest form of love, you know, that comes from the Holy Spirit, it comes from him, it doesn't come from ourselves.
So it's a real godly love which comes from God because God is agape love.
So yeah, that, it's a different. It's that next level of love is what they're talking about in this scripture. And this love is a choice, isn't it? It's a choice to be kind. It's a choice to be compassionate and to put someone else's needs first, you know, and like, you know, for God to love the world that he gave. He loved the world and he gave. He did that first, incredible, most incredible act out of love. And everything flowed from that place. So everything comes from that. And it's a kind of love that is beyond our capacity in our own human flesh. That's why we need the Spirit. That's why we need to be empowered by him in order to activate these fruits of the Spirit. And it's something we receive by faith, but it grows by obedience.
And faith and obedience go hand in hand.
So it's something that we can. There's no, you know, we take the pressure off. It's. We can. We are empowered with these. You know, it's not something that we need to really strive and try and do on our own.
Our own flesh and try and always tick these boxes. Like, it's just letting go of all of that control and just surrendering to the Holy Spirit because He empowers us to be able to receive these gifts. And it's a kind of love that isn't earned, isn't it? Like, it flows from the heart because it's the DNA of God, and we're made ultimately in his image.
So love is really the starting point for these other fruits, which is really cool because you can't embody the other fruits with a loveless heart.
So it really makes sense that love is first and it really anchors us and is the center point of our existence. And then the more I was thinking about it, I thought, you know, fruit is the natural result of growth.
So it's that natural byproduct of what's going on deep inside. You can't just have fruit without the tree and without the roots and without the full system it needs. It's deep in that it will come. It'll bear from that. It will come from that. But we need to.
It's a direct reflection of a deeper thing which is the same in us.
So you will know them by your fruit. By their fruit. Sorry, which Jesus talks about.
Jesus says he's talking of true and false prophets.
You'll know them by their fruit. So it's something that we just need to let the Holy Spirit help us with. And that he is how we have healthy fruit. It's through Him. It's not us, it's spiritual fruit. It's not human fruit. So we need to always remember that and not do it in our own strength. And love, ultimately is the greatest gift we can receive, and it's the greatest gift we can give someone. There's nothing greater. There's not. And never underestimate the power of love. You know, if only the world listened to God's two commandments, love God and love others. Like, we would just be in a different planet. We'd be on a different planet. You know, if everything we did and said came out of that place of love. I mean, there would just be no hatred, there'd be no wars, there'd be, you know, it would just be a different place. So we need to always be refining that and doing, say, everything out of love. So I think it's a beautiful place to start, you know, kicking off your podcast again with talking about this beautiful gift of the spirit.
[00:12:24] Wendy parker: Yeah, and what you said, Kirsty, you know, it's, it's, it's like a supernatural love. And, and I think the world does see romantic love as, you know, that's, that's the be all and end all because we have hundreds of songs about love and, and lots of rom coms about love and, but, but it's not, that's not lasting. The, the love that Paul puts in his list is, like you said, it does not come from us. And, and we can't sustain it. We have to tap into it and we have to connect to it. And we all look like trees. You know, we're all trees. But, but, but it's the fruit. Because you look at a two trees and you think, well, is it apple or orange tree? But it's only till the fruit comes that you're like, oh, that's definitely an apple tree. That's correct.
[00:13:21] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah.
[00:13:22] Wendy parker: You know, and, and, and if our fruit doesn't look like how we're meant to grow, then we're. We're getting it wrong, right?
[00:13:32] Kirsty Neilson: Totally. Yeah. What, what's our foundations? What soil are we planted in? What are we, what elements are we allowing to help us grow? What's happening around us? Why isn't the fruit bearing? Or why aren't we producing the best fruit we could? And it's having awareness of that too, because we may have the right intentions, but we're blinded to maybe, you know, the thorn in our own eye and not seeing. You know, there could be people in our world that are just not speaking life into us that aren't really God's best for us or we're engaging in activities that aren't God's best for us. But the more we keep doing that, we're going to. Yeah. Not produce the best fruit we can for us. But like you said, look, we never get things perfect anyway. And you know, God does have grace for us. But yeah, if we can do our best to think about all that, well, then it's, we're giving ourselves the best shot at, you know, the, the life God wants for us.
[00:14:25] Wendy parker: Yep, yep. Absolutely. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier about letting go of things.
And I love the fact that you are an accomplished artist. You get to do what you love to do.
And the great thing is that it is your ministry. That's, that's your ministry. And wherever you're invited to speak, you speak so much life and love into others.
But I'm sure that journey has not been easy and there are times when you have totally wanted to give up.
[00:15:01] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah.
[00:15:01] Wendy parker: And it makes me think of the, the author, Anne Voskamp, I love her books, but she says the only way through is to let go of the way you've come. And looking back on your journey, Kirsty, towards your God given dream of being an artist, what have you had to let go of so you could find a way through?
[00:15:26] Kirsty Neilson: Well, it's funny you mentioned that quote because the scripture that really I feel like has gotten me through really, I don't know, challenging times is Isaiah 43:18, which says, forget the former things, do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing. And I always used to think about a bird flying and if he's, if the bird's constantly looking back and he's flying straight, he's clearly going to crash into something and hurt himself.
So we need to be, we can't keep living in the past seeking what's behind. We need to look forward in order to have the most productive path forward.
So I mean, that's something that I remember reading, finding that probably reading it for the first time right when I was finishing up with fashion because I worked in fashion for years before I became a full time artist. So I did study fine arts when I first left high school, but then I left there thinking, well, I can't be a real, a full time artist. Like that's not a real job. So I went and studied fashion design because I didn't know anyone doing it. I didn't know that you really could do it as a full time job because I wasn't, I didn't Know it? Yeah. I didn't know anyone doing it, and I just had no idea. So when I sort of. Everything sort of shut, the doors were just closing in fashion. Like, one thing just kept ending and ending and ending.
And I really felt called to step out and pursue.
Pursue being an artist. But it was hard because, you know, I had to let go of that idea of a normal job. That was something that I actually really struggled with a normal pay and, you know, I found it really hard to even tell people when they say, what do you do for a living? And I'd say, oh, I'm an artist. Oh. But I was. Was working in fashion, and I did, you know, intern at Harper's Bazaar.
Totally. I was doing piano teaching. I'd name everything I was doing, and I could never. Just took me, like, two years just to say, I'm an artist. Because I thought people would judge me and think, oh, what do you mean? You're just an artist? You know, so that took me a while just to get through that. Of like, no, this actually is now my job, and I'm actually making a living from it. So that was probably the only challenging thing. It's really my own.
My own thoughts.
Yeah. To. Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, carry on.
[00:17:46] Wendy parker: Yeah, go on.
[00:17:46] Kirsty Neilson: No, I was just gonna say the end of that scripture after the end of Isaiah 43:18, it says, I'm making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland and that I really, you know, kept holding on to. It's like, just keep going through the. What looks like the unknown and something that's really hard, but you just have to keep pushing through. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:10] Wendy parker: And. And you have. You've. You've pushed through even your own limitations.
Because when you spoke and I thought, oh, my gosh, this is why we get on. Because for years, I never told anyone that I. I write. And I'm like, well, I.
This is before I had published books. I'm like, well, I. I. Yeah, I write, but I do this, this, and this and this and this. And I've even had people go, when are you going to get a real job? When are you going to get Mike? Yeah, but this is what I'm trying to pursue. And, you know, we tell our children, we tell little boys and girls, you know, you can be whatever you want to be. Yeah, you can be this. You can be this. But then when you become an adult, all of a sudden that all disappears because you got to get a real job.
Yes, but there has to be artists.
There has to be writers. There has to be people in that world to create.
Same as, like, movies and. And all the things that we enjoy. But. But these are people's jobs. This is what they do. And I think as artists, Kirsty, we tend to let others box us in.
They correct this narrow path in their mind of. Yes, that's what Kirsty's going to do.
Yes, she's creative and she's an amazing painter, but, hey, she needs to get a real job.
And it's that security, isn't it? Because I know in the writing world, it's. It's very precarious.
You know, you don't make a lot of. A lot of money from writing, per se.
[00:19:47] Kirsty Neilson: And totally. It's really hard.
[00:19:49] Wendy parker: Yeah. And I can imagine it's the same in the. In the art world.
[00:19:54] Kirsty Neilson: Totally. I mean, I have some art friends that, you know, they're 10, 11, 12 time Archibald finalists, and they.
They don't even get anywhere near, like, the commissions or the. The shows that kind of even I get, or so it is. It's hard and it is a harder path to follow. But if you have a natural gift in this, you have to execute your gift. You have to use what's in you, what God's given you on your hands.
[00:20:19] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:20:20] Kirsty Neilson: So it is. It. But it is becoming a lot more acceptable. And, you know, we're not so much. Everyone has to do the 9 to 5, you know, and everyone has the office job or has to work in business or has to. You know, the arts is a lot more celebrated and times are changing, which is good, because imagine if we didn't have creativity, it would just. And I don't know why.
Yeah. And I don't know why there's. It, you know, it's taken this long to put just as much importance on the arts as, say, business. I mean, and they both go hand in hand anyway. I mean, I'm running a business as well as painting every day.
So, yeah, it's. It's an interesting thing, but I think it's really starting to flip, which is encouraging for everyone, really.
[00:21:04] Wendy parker: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Especially in Australia as well. I think it's. It's more, probably more celebrated than other parts of the world.
[00:21:15] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, we are lucky. Yeah, definitely.
[00:21:17] Wendy parker: Absolutely. We. Yeah, it's. It's the. It's the country of opportunity for. For sure.
[00:21:23] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah.
Yes. And definitely in the arts, like, there's so many art prizes for us here and opportunities, you know. You know, because there's prize money and it's a Good way of getting your name out there and, you know, raising your profile. And so we do have a lot of. And there's grants and I mean, obviously, like, everything. You know, there can always be more money into the arts, but there could be more money into everything. So, you know, it's. It's. But we're. Like you said, we're lucky here. And it's. We are lucky. I am lucky as an artist.
[00:21:53] Wendy parker: Yeah. Yeah. And. And, you know, God has made you this way. You know, your path has been purposely built. And.
And in a conversation we've had previously, you mentioned about. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was like the little creek road, and you said, everyone needs to find that path. And. And.
But how does your love for God and your love for others help you navigate this. This path that you're talking about being an artist? And it. And it is so narrow sometimes.
But how have you navigated that? Because I'm sure there's been some deep valleys. It's not always been, you know, confetti and roses.
There's been some moments. But how has the love of God, that fruit of his spirit, brought you through?
[00:22:45] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, well, yeah. I talk about, like, finding your slipstream, finding your sweet spot, finding that little stream that is just for you. And I think about it like this. It's like. It's like you're a leaf and you're finding your. Your little slipstream, and then the minute you're on, that little leaf is on. There you are, you're off, you're taken off, and there's an ease and there's a flow. And when you find that, that's where you are going to flourish.
So whatever that is, wherever that may lead you, I'd always encourage everyone, like. Like, find what you love and what you're passionate about and find your slipstream, something that is your unique path. What is God calling you to? As unique as it could be, as out of the box as it might be.
You know, specifically regarding my practice, you know, as an artist, I've had to be okay with walking through the wilderness many times. In terms of making bad paintings. In terms of, you know. Yeah. Making work. Like, try experimenting, trying things that are new, which I may completely fail at, and it may. But I have. I may have to do 10 bad paintings to get to the 11th painting. But that 11th painting, I will be the breakthrough painting, and that'll be the gold. You've got to be willing to walk through and wade through the branches and the bushes and the overgrowth in order to get to the gold, in order to get to the other side, to get to that, that thing that you, you've been waiting for, that is going to excel you and propel you into the next sort of chapter.
But you've got to be willing to do that. And I mean, I had to put down a foot photographs ago. I was quite a realistic painter, you know, photorealistic, which I still do now sort of for clients and commission, commission work. But my own stuff now is very different. I was told, you know, Kirsty, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to put down photographs, you need to work from life and you need to find your own visual language. So I had to do that, I don't know, seven, maybe seven years, eight years ago, and I started doing self portraits in the mirror and I started, you know, working outdoors in plein air, working from life, setting up my easel outdoors and doing these quicker paintings that are more like, it's more note taking then rather getting every detail across. But by doing that my natural sort of language is going to come out. And even now I'm experimenting with much bigger work that I haven't done before. So it's daring to dream, dare to think beyond your capacity and don't be afraid to walk through the hard when it's heavy and it's not working. Because that is like my half my days making bad work or making work that I don't like. Honestly, half this week I've just made. I'm turning these drawings into paintings and I don't like most of the drawings I've done this week and I'm. And then you question yourself and I am such a perfectionist. I am really hard on myself and I think a lot of us are and we can come down on ourselves. But if you let that take you out of the game, you're never going to build that character and that endurance and that, that grit in order to better prepare you for something else in your life.
So you need to be able to find that stamina to give something a go that. Look, it may not be exactly where you need to be, but it'll lead you. If anything, a closed door will lead you to the open door. So don't be afraid to step out and do something different and let God lead you and guide you.
And Francis Bacon, who is a well known artist, he said you have to allow for the element of chance.
And obviously he was talking about paintings, but I loved that. I mean, I always refer to that because in order to allow for the element of chance. Exactly that. It needs to be chance. It needs to be almost by accident. It needs to just be random gesture that worked or didn't work. Or maybe you make a mark and then you wipe it off, but that in wiping it off, you created three colors, have just blended into one, which then actually works. So you can use those mistakes, those roadblocks, those, you know, people that won't give you that grant or won't give you that job or whatever it is, or said no for this or. But use that as a way to pivot to then and then keep walking.
So, yeah, you'll always be guided by the river, by your little slipstream. And once you're in it, like, it's not necessarily just always easy, but there is an ease and a float because it's where God has positioned you, and it's where God wants you.
And, you know, we all struggle believing in ourselves. I always struggle, you know, believing in myself and believing I'm even a good artist. Half the time, I'm. I'm like, oh, I'm just not, you know, why am I doing this? I'm not even good. You know, we all question ourselves.
[00:27:35] Wendy parker: Yeah.
Don't we?
[00:27:37] Kirsty Neilson: Oh, comparison. I mean, it's the biggest piece of joy, isn't it?
[00:27:40] Wendy parker: Yep.
[00:27:41] Kirsty Neilson: It'll rob you of your joy. It'll rob you of your happiness.
And, yeah. Comparing ourselves to our peers or, you know, someone else in the industry or friends, or they've got this or they're doing that, and you've got to run your own race. And I always. I always compare myself to my friends, my other artist friends, and I. But I always have to come back and bring myself back to I'm in my own slipstream. This is unique for me. It's. I'm not trying to join their slipstream and try and jump over into their little. Their little river. I've got to stay in my lane. And even today, I was literally doing it today, I was painting, and I was looking at another artist for inspiration, and I was looking at their work, but I was like, no, don't make it look like theirs. Like, don't be so inspired that now you're trying to, like, you know, either copy it or get too inspired that it then looks like their work. I was like, no, no, no.
This has to be you. So it's a constant refining. It's a constant readjusting, you know, So I think that's important. And ultimately, God's opinion is the only opinion that Matters.
[00:28:45] Wendy parker: That's right. Yeah. And I love that word readjusting because I mean, it's the same with me being a writer, doing podcasts and blogs and, and I always, you know, I looked at other podcasts and other writers and I'm like, oh, I want to do this. And my husband always said, well, you got to start somewhere. I'm like, yeah, but this looks nice. Nothing like this. He's like, just start, start something and then you can build on that. And you take absolutely what you're saying, Kirsty is 100 true. Because as artists and we love what we do, but we're like, but it's, it's not this. We want, we want this. But, but it's like God is saying, you just got to start, just do something and when, then we can build and, and pivot and move and, and, and just create something that is unique to your fingerprint, to your voice, to your slipstream, as you say.
And, and your, your voice and your creativity and your painting is going to be like nobody else's. Because. No, nobody's Kirsten Nielsen. But. Kirsten. Kirsten Nielsen, right?
[00:29:59] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, yeah. And, and totally.
[00:30:01] Wendy parker: Yeah.
It's, it's just. I love how you speak into things and how you just, you self reflect all the time. And I, and I think being an artist is, that's, that's a, it is a way of how our brain works, you know, because we are creating things, so we have to have that self reflective and. But it refines us as well. It refines us. And, and for you to start painting something and you think, you know, and like you said, you paint things, you think, oh, I don't like it. But who knows, you know, like the artwork, someone might go, oh, that's amazing. I love it.
[00:30:36] Kirsty Neilson: Exactly.
That's the thing about art. I mean, it gets me all the time. I will, I will think, oh, this one is so garbage. And then I'll show my gallerist and you'll be like, oh, that's like one of the best ones. And I'm like, you're joking. Like you are kidding me. I've got the paint over it. Like so even my own judgment of what I think can be good. I mean, everyone, it's different, right? Like one man trash is another man's treasure. It's the same thing. What someone loves, someone else is going to hate and vice versa. So that's why you just have to be true to yourself and you cannot let. So like, I've got to learn to ignore the audience and ignore all the noise because otherwise I will just get so lost in it all in the swirling sounds of do this and do that and look at this artist and be inspired by this artist and then you end up just getting so lost. You've lost yourself. But it's always coming back to the true north, which for us it's God.
[00:31:29] Wendy parker: Absolutely.
[00:31:29] Kirsty Neilson: And.
[00:31:30] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:31:30] Kirsty Neilson: Staying true to that.
[00:31:31] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah. And. And you know, God's love, like we said, it's, it's supernatural and it's. But it. In 1 John 4:18, it says that perfect love casts out fear. And as artists, we can get fearful.
Well, in life in general, we can, we can get fearful. So, so what did you do to stop letting fear dictate to you who you were going to be and allow God's absolute perfect love help you with every anxious and worried thought about your future as an artist?
[00:32:11] Kirsty Neilson: Well, I think it's just remembering to always, like, for me, it's just putting two feet back on the ground. Right. Like not getting so caught up with, like I said, other people's opinions or culture. You know, things are changing and shifting so much in Australia. I mean, there's this happening, then this is happening and then next minute our moral compass as a country has totally swung this way and things are constantly moving. And I think, you know, there's a lot of noise and especially with social media, there's a lot of opinions and I think if we get so wrapped up in it and so swelled up in it, we're not. What, what, what is our foundation? What do our feet landed on? Where are we? And I just think it's always important to bring our two feet back on the ground and not get so caught up with it all. But I look, each year I feel like I get better at it because ultimately fear is anti faith at the end of the day. And I just refuse to be dictated by fear, which you know, is the devil. So we just need to keep being, pursuing, you know, God's love and what he wants for us and stop letting fear sort of take over.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:33:26] Wendy parker: And, and rightly so. You know, we, we're in a battle, there's an enemy, he's not happy with us pursuing what God has called us to do because it helps so many people and doing something you love and so passionate about.
I know as a writer, you know, it can be beautiful, but it can be so painful sometimes.
Rejections and criticisms, everything that goes with it, that can really knock your confidence.
[00:33:57] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah.
[00:33:58] Wendy parker: So can you share a time, Kirsty? When the enemy has weaponized your success and used it against you to start to call, question God's love for you and his calling on your life.
[00:34:13] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah. I mean, when I first was hung in the Archibald prize, which was 2016, which, funnily enough, was the first year, I. I did Bible college. That year, God called me to do Bible college. I thought, oh, I can't do Bible college. Grief. Like, I'm. I need a paint. I need. I need to have a job, you know, need to earn a living. Anyway, I felt it so strong. So, long story short, ended up going to college, and actually, that's where I met Janine Cavala, and then, you know, ended up going on the Esther's Voice trip. So, you know, God always has a way.
[00:34:42] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:34:43] Kirsty Neilson: He orchestrates everything to his plan. So.
But look, that was in the. Just when I thought, I don't have time to really. To paint. Anyway, that was the first year I got hung in the Archibald Prize, and I painted Gary McDonald, who's a famous actor and comedian, and that painting kind of went. It was one of the paintings that advertised the Archibald. So it was on every billboard and bus stops and sort of everywhere. And. And I remember this was the first year that I got negative articles written about me, because then the minute you're in the public eye in any way, shape or form, it gives people the right to say what they want about you and to tear you down, if they will, if they, you know, want to.
So I had.
The first article that was written was in the Sydney Morning Herald and also in the Spectrum, and it was this big. My painting was, you know, in the middle of the paper. And then, I mean, it was about other artists as well. It wasn't just me, but, you know, there was just an art critic having a go at the Archibald, and. But I cried. I remember, like, because I hadn't experienced this before. I hadn't experienced such public, like, tearing me down. Something. Someone, you know.
[00:35:53] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:35:54] Kirsty Neilson: Who's meant to be helping promote the arts and encourage and, you know, cheer you on. But here they are just ripping you to shreds and.
[00:36:02] Wendy parker: And humiliating you.
[00:36:03] Kirsty Neilson: Really humiliating, man. I did. I cried. I thought, oh, my gosh, this is horrible. But I tell you, it just gave me thicker skin because I made that decision to be like, okay, you know what if someone feels the need to tear me down, I must be doing something right.
So I just love it. Used it as ammunition and as fuel to keep fueling me forward.
So anytime I've had it since, which, look, I've been very blessed that, you know, I kind of don't have a style that's, you know, super out there and people feel the need to tear down all the time. You know, I've had a couple comments over the years on social media posts of one of my paintings, you know, that have been hung in the arch, things like that. But, you know, every time I almost find it as a compliment and I'm like, right, I'm using that as another layer of skin that I'm putting on my body to thicken my skin up, to make me tougher to handle. Because this is going to be constant. We're never going to not have someone say something mean to us. Right. Like, we live in a fallen world. We live in a world where people can be mean and people can get emotional and say things maybe that they don't mean, but, you know, we're going to be hurt and it's, how are we going to respond? How are we going to react?
So there's things, there was things like that that, you know, it's really helped me sort of, yeah, pivot and use it as a positive even. I've had friends, I've, you know, dear friends, some of my best friend to two previous best friends that, you know, did horrible things to me publicly and sort of privately, one on one. And I'm obviously no longer friends of those people, but really attacked my character and who I was.
And, you know, it's hard when you are attacked and, you know, you question things and when the enemy really weaponizes things against you and who you are, especially when you've literally done nothing wrong, but he'll do anything to take you down. And, you know, that's, that's also what I find a compliment. When the enemy is right on your tail and he is really throwing arrows, it's because he knows what is coming for you. Like, as in he knows what God is going to use you for in the future. So it's actually a compliment. I always say, listen, this is just because he knows the incredible things God is going to use you for.
So don't be like, don't be derailed, like, be excited, because God's got something incredible that he's going to use you to do.
So use it to really equip you and to propel you forward once again. So it's always a decision. You know, we can always be torn down, but it's a decision. And it's every. Everything that happens to us is always, you know, it's, it's an opportunity to sharpen our character and be a better person for ourselves. And God enables us to do that. So.
[00:38:59] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where the fruit of God love come in. Because when you get attacked like that, especially from people, that opinion, you know, some people's opinions, you think, it doesn't bother me because you're not offending me or hurting me because your opinion, I'm. It doesn't bother. I'm not interested in your opinion. But when it's so close to home and the enemy is so good at that, it really does knock you. But that's where you like. No, I'm going to stay connected to the vine because my fruit has to be love.
My fruit has to not be bad and rotten and they can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day, and it's knowing who you are and what you've been called to do.
[00:39:47] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, that. Who, who you are and whose you are.
[00:39:49] Wendy parker: Oh, yes, yes.
[00:39:52] Kirsty Neilson: You know.
[00:39:52] Wendy parker: Yes, yes.
[00:39:54] Kirsty Neilson: And it's not being dictated by, you know, people around you. It's. It's like I said, it's keeping your feet back, firm, down on the ground. Bring yourself back down. What, what is, you know, what is the most important thing, you know, grounding your mind again. Yeah, yeah.
[00:40:12] Wendy parker: And, and you know it.
Paul says In Galatians, chapter 1, verse 10, he says, Am I trying to win the approval of men or God, or am I trying to please men? If I were trying, still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Now Paul is speaking about preaching the true gospel and not some watered down version.
So as an artist, when you get prompted from God to paint something and you get into that creative flow, do you have to battle with feelings of watering down what you felt prompted to paint just so it wins the approval of man? Or do you push through Kirsty, and do you continue, continue to seek God's approval regardless how you think others are going to react?
[00:41:04] Kirsty Neilson: Well, I tell you what, it's one of those things where I, I bounce to and fro sometimes and I've got it, you know, because once again, we don't always get things perfect. But I've got it. Like I've sort of already mentioned you've got to. I have to ignore the audience. I have to ignore the people that are telling me, oh no, I like. I mean, it's the craziest thing. I've had people in art shops try and critique my work. People that don't even know that I brought in to have framed. And they're like, oh, I would have, you know, done this. Or I don't think, who are you to tell me what my eyes should be doing? Like it. But, you know, you just nod and smile and say, thank you.
[00:41:43] Wendy parker: But you're so sweet and kind.
[00:41:46] Kirsty Neilson: Well, actually, yeah, I find it funny. I'm like, oh, okay.
But it's funny what people say and what they think they can say. And I allow very few people to actually speak into my practice.
I've got really, like, two, three people that I allow to really give me real guidance.
And it's just a thing of ignoring the audience for me and not letting sort of that dictate, because I can. I can't. I can be led by that. And look, that God can be in that too.
But, I mean, I was doing it this morning. I was like, you know, I've done these drawings that I don't necessarily love. And I'm like, which drawing do I turn into the painting next? And I just, for the life of me, couldn't make the decision. And I was like, okay, which. You know, which one? But I feel like if I sold it as a painting, like, it would look better. Someone may like this picture better, and someone may like these colors better, and my gallery may like this and. Oh, that. My mentor may say, this one. And then you get so confused.
And I was like, oh, I just got to silence all that. And I was like, right just where. And I put worship music on. And I was like, God, I just need you to give me peace about what to paint for this next painting, because I just drive myself insane. So this is, like my daily battle, Wendy. Like, I will probably constantly battle with this because it's every day you're making creative decisions. Every mark is a. Is a different decision. So you're making, like, thousands of decisions a day before you even.
[00:43:10] Wendy parker: Before you even put a paintbrush on a canvas. Right?
[00:43:14] Kirsty Neilson: Totally.
I, like, go to bed thinking of my paintings and what I can be like. This is probably why I've got insomnia again at the moment, because I just cannot turn my mind off. Like, my creative brain is just going a million miles an hour, and I'm always thinking of different ideas and how I can paint this one and this idea and show. Do this, and then I'll just. You know, I look at ideas, and it can. Can take hours just thinking you're not even doing yet because you're thinking about it. So you do have to silence a lot of that. And, you know, but sometimes God does Speak to me and I see, I'll get it. I'll get a picture in my head of a painting and I'll paint that. Right. So it's either happens like that or I'm guided by the creative process and God, you know, guides me. But sometimes you are you just sort of winging it and you. I'm just having a go and I'm trying something new and different and sometimes it just doesn't work, but that's fine, you know, And I think as Christians, it's okay to not be perfect all the time and get everything right. And I think that's where we can over spiritualize things, right? Yeah, to the point where it stops us even stepping out. You know, we don't even step out of the boat because we really need a clear, guided, guided answer from God before we do it. But really he wants us just to move and he will direct and guide us.
So I think it's that ability just to give something a go. Dare to dream, dare to, to do something that, you know, you may not have thought to do or think, think up, you know, like, what would you regret it if you didn't give that a go? And it's just having that, that willingness to, to lay down your own flesh and, and take up bravery and be bold.
So, yeah, it's, you know, it's God's approval that matters. And when I was doing this painting this morning, I just started and I felt peace and I was like, okay, I know I'm doing then doing the right thing. Like I'm chose to do the right one for this moment, this morning, you know? Yeah, but it's a constant thing. It's a constant back and forth. In a way.
[00:45:18] Wendy parker: Yeah. I think of Peter stepping out the boat and we always think, oh, but he took his eyes off Jesus and he sank. And I'm like, well, where were the other 11 disciples? They were. Yeah. The boat. At least he had the gutsy move to just give it a crack, you know?
[00:45:35] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's made. He's further along than they are, Right.
[00:45:40] Wendy parker: He's. He's got an experience that they're never going to experience. I mean, walking on water, you know?
[00:45:46] Kirsty Neilson: I know. And what a story.
[00:45:48] Wendy parker: Story for his grandkids, right?
[00:45:50] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, yeah, seriously. And it's gone down in the history book.
[00:45:55] Wendy parker: I know, right. We're still reading about it thousands of years later. And when you talk about the chaos, I mean in theology, it's, it's. Jesus walked on the water because he's chaos in Biblical, you know, you'd know this because you've been in Bible college as well, that chaos in the Bible is represented by the sea. And that's why Jesus walked over it, because he's like, I'm over the chaos. I am the creator.
So when we get in, lost in the seaweed, being pulled down into the watery depths with our own chaotic thoughts and everything coming against us, isn't it just so good that we can just stop getting God's presence, get in his love and go, okay, God, I just need you to re. Center me.
[00:46:51] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah, yeah. It's just a constant coming back to him, isn't it? Returning to the Father, just connecting, returning and just sitting with him, being with him.
That's just pursuing his presence.
You know, not going to him necessarily with, with an agenda. It's just, I seek your face, I don't seek your hand.
And we've got to always have that posture which can be hard. Right when we obviously. Look, it's important to pray for things that we know we need to pray for, but it is important to also just intercede and sit with him and just seek him. I remember Dr. Yongi Cho said, and for those of you who don't know, he had the biggest church in the world of, I think was 750,000 people in South Korea.
And he said, oh, no. Yeah. He said, if you're, if you have 10 minutes to pray, eight minutes of those 10 minutes should be Thanksgiving.
[00:47:48] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:49] Kirsty Neilson: And I always think of that too. I'm like, oh, I've got to just thank him. Just thank him. Imagine if that's what we did, like 8 minutes out of our 10 minute prayer time was just Thanksgiving. But I tell you that that'll posture your heart in a completely different way for when you pray for those two minutes for specific things.
[00:48:06] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:48:07] Kirsty Neilson: So it's, that's encouraging to know that, you know, we just need to put into practice what, what the Bible says and, and live out of that place.
[00:48:18] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. And, and because we're talking about the fruit of the spirit. And I hope whoever's listening, this is just, you're probably taking down a million notes, but because this is just gold nuggets coming out from Kirsty's, you know, from the conversation we're having and the vineyard of John, chapter 15, you know, Jesus says, I'm the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, there's that connection.
He will bear much fruit, because apart from me, you can do nothing. And sometimes as artists, there's seasons where, you know, you pursue your dream.
For you, Kirsty, you become an accomplished artist, you step into ministry. But, but where have you found the disconnection because you've been so busy doing and doing and doing and has it had good and lasting fruit or did you find that the fruit that grew from that disconnection was, was just rotten and bad? Can you speak into that?
[00:49:26] Kirsty Neilson: Yeah. So.
Well, Covid obviously hit around what, 2020, early 2020.
I was running a big connect group at that stage. Sort of over 40 people every two weeks were at my place for a dinner and God chat which then just turned into. It started off as actually as a social dinner, then it went into dinner and God chat. Then it just went into more connect group because cooking for 35 plus people every two weeks was just a lot. Even people bringing stuff. It was still just a big, a big, you know, event.
Yes. And it was at my place. So Taft us. You know, look, it was, it was great and God really graced me for the season.
But I did feel the, when the grace lifted, I obviously gave up the connect group and passed, you know, handed on to someone else. But we were in covert at this point and you know, Covid did some interesting things to most people, but I did feel I was in a bit of a lull. You know, like I did feel a bit flattened and like I was carrying like a backpack full of rocks. Everything just felt hard. Even being a Christian felt hard. Felt hard to like be in his presence or pick up the Bible or if I didn't pick up the Bible for a few days or you know, do my devotions for a few days. I then felt like I was behind. So I was feeling like I've never, you know, I was never good enough and I was never up to speed and up to, you know, and, and I did, I was in a quite a spiritual lull for a few years. And then I think sort of, yeah, disappointment of unmet sort of dreams and desires and things I'd been praying into. Still seeing them not met.
I think, you know, really hardened my heart towards God and it really, you know, it hindered my relationship with him because I felt so disappointed, you know. And I, I had that self self righteous thing of, you know, I've been serving you and I've been, you know, giving, serving the church and running this big connect group and giving to others and giving my time and don't you
[00:51:31] Wendy parker: know what I'm talking about?
[00:51:31] Kirsty Neilson: And you know, yeah, what about me, you know, poor little me. And I'm just the victim, you know. But it's. We do get into that headspace. And I was in that headspace for, you know, a beard. And I just. I couldn't shake it because I was.
Yeah, like I said, my heart was hardened in a way because of disappointment and discouragement.
And so it's really only been in the last sort of year that I've really felt, you know, I've sort of come out again.
But it's. It took me. It did take me down for a while. And it's. It can be hard when you don't feel as attached to the vine and you are looking elsewhere and your mind is, you know, you're getting distracted and then up there's temptation and then, you know, sin can creep in and it, you know, worldly stuff. And I'm obviously in a very worldly industry.
You know, it's very progressive and as such. But, you know, it's.
Yeah, it's. It's. I definitely experienced not being, you know, as focused on God as I could. And you never, you're never as happy. Like, honestly, I mean, I grew up in a Christian family, but so I've never had that moment of being not saved and then saved and then not knowing God and then knowing God and have that really incredible, transforming moment.
So having known God my whole life, um, you know, that sort of when I have dabbled in not being so on fire for him. I mean, look, I'll still going to church and still, you know, it's not like I've ever rebelled and, you know, left church and walked away from God or anything. But, you know, you can tell when you're just not as in it as you want.
[00:53:16] Wendy parker: Ticking boxes, right?
[00:53:18] Kirsty Neilson: Totally. And you're just trying to stay in it. And I was trying to, like, hold on. Like, I was like, God, I am, I want it. But I just. It is so hard. It became really hard for me.
And that's when I. Like I said this year, it's like, seek first the kingdom. Like, you've got to put down all your desires and all. Everything that you expect. Because hope deferred makes the heart sick, you know, and there's so many scriptures that we can rely on to help. Help us, you know, without where we are mentally.
And yeah, it was. I was not producing good fruit. It was bad for it. And I really had to do a call. And like I said, when those things happened with those two friends of mine, that was really, honestly, that was protection, not Rejection. Because as much as it hurt me, as much as they both hurt me, I really know that was God protecting me and, like, getting them out of my life. So we have. So that was also a pruning, you know, and it's allowing God to prune you in every way, whether it's your work life, family life, friends, bad habits, or it could be good habits, but they're taking you away. Maybe you're so obsessed with something. I remember John Bevere talking about. He was. He loved golf so much, but he would play it so excessively and watch it so, so much that God actually spoke to him and said, like, golf is an idol to you. Like, you are completely idolized golf. And he was like, oh, my goodness. Like. And that's something that's not negative. Like that. Yeah, yeah, it's golf. But he had to, you know, he gave it up. And not that he's given it up fully now, but he. He needed to just stop for a minute, realign. And now obviously he still loves golf and watches golf, but it's just in a completely different.
[00:55:05] Wendy parker: Yeah, it doesn't consume manner now. Yeah.
[00:55:08] Kirsty Neilson: Yes. And you're able to cut that branch in order for new fruit to grow. You know, the pruning is so important. It's like when there's a while, like a fire, like a wildfire sweeps through a bush. You know it. But if you'll. You'll see, you know, new greenery come through, new little sprouts on the trees, these burnt trees come through because there's still life in that tree. But it actually is important to actually have the tree be burnt in order for new growth to come. Like, that's actually important for the environment sometimes.
[00:55:42] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:55:42] Kirsty Neilson: Obviously not just mass, you know, burning of entire forests, but it actually is part of the regeneration process of trees and regrowth and planting and new seeds falling. So it's okay, you know, to walk through the fire, you know, because you're refined in the fire. That's where God actually does his best work in and through you. So it's not being afraid of that. Once again, it's not being afraid. Like, use it as to thicken yourself up and to add thick skin to you, to yourself, so you're more equipped and ready for. Then the next thing that God's gonna, you know, that's going to come along your path.
So I think it's important to be pruned and also prune, you know, allow God to prune you, but prune yourself, you know, get rid of bad Habits or, you know, if there's people in your life that just shouldn't be in your life, get rid of them. And that's okay to do a pruning because you, you know, and you may feel bare for a minute, but there will be new life that grows.
And I've certainly had to go through that. And, you know, we'll all probably always have to go through those sort of prunings and refining moments. But that's the great thing, is that we can always be pruned and refined by him and we're never too far gone. Never, you know.
[00:57:05] Wendy parker: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's so well said, Kirsty. And you know, we.
The strength found in the fruit of love is, is all from God's strength. And we cannot do it in our own strength. We cannot do any of it. No fruit bearing is in our own strength. And you know what? I could talk to you all day, Kirsty. We could like chat and chat and chat, but as we wrap up this conversation, just want to help someone who's listening and maybe they're wrestling because you talk about dare to dream, dare to dream and pursue your dream. So can you just share a moment that's going to help a listener where you decided to completely surrender to God, take that one brave, bold step in the daring direction he wanted you to go in. And even when you didn't understand how it was going to turn out, but you decided to do it anyway, what would you say to a listener who is on the precipice of wanting to take that bold step?
[00:58:12] Kirsty Neilson: Well, yeah, I mean, this is obviously what I did with being an artist. I just quit everything. I didn't know a thing of what was in front of me. I didn't know if I'd. Six, eight, if I would get work. So everything was one big question mark, which, you know, we can find ourselves at those pinnacle points and those pinnacle moments, the turning of the chapter moments.
But I felt the calling to do it. And as much as I didn't know what I was walking into, I was walking blind into this. That, that's what faith is, isn't it? It's walking blind and trusting him that he'll guide us.
And it was the best thing I've ever done because I just, I backed my own ability. I backed where God was guiding me.
And, you know, I, I always encourage people, if you have a gift, if you have something that is. It's been laying dormant, you have a gift.
God is a creative God. He's given you that creative gift to use it. He's given you that gift to express yourself in that way, to utilize it, to activate it. So don't let it lay dormant. Even if it's something that you do on the side, even if you can't, whatever it is, even if it's something you can't do full time, it can't be your full time job or your, you know, but take all your attention away. But use it and utilize it because he's you. That desire and that passion for that thing for a reason, and it might be so beyond what you think it could be used for. So also remember that it's so beyond what we think.
God may have all these other things that he wants to use, or he may inspire someone else through you. Doing that thing that then will propel that person to go on and do incredible things and impact all the whole other community. But it was that little seed that you sowed in them and that little step of bravery you took.
So, yeah, dare to step outside the box. Dare to do multiple things. Dare to wear multiple hats and do something that people don't expect.
Do the unexpected. Do things that are so wildly outside of your box that it may even scare you in the best way possible.
Don't leave anything untouched. Don't leave anything unturned.
Just, yeah, like I said, dare to dream. Dare to dream big and step into the new. Never, always step into the new. Keep it, you know, keep expanding, keep developing.
Every time I do a painting, I'm like, right, the next painting has to be better. The next painting has to be better. Try, like always trying to just expand and improve my practice and try to stretch myself, because that is where you're going to grow. The growth is in the stretch. That is when your character is sharpened. That is when you will learn the most about yourself. That's where you'll be mostly challenged. And challenges are great things because that's where mentally we're tested and we're able to do better and be better.
And like I said, you never know who you're going to inspire. Like when I entered my first painting in the Archibald and my second painting in the Archibald, my second painting was a self portrait. And I was, like I said, starting to do these, you know, self portraits in the mirror. So. And I was painting just my anxiety and my insomnia. So my work, I started to make more autobiographical, you know, and that's. If you, if you're wondering where to start with something, just make whatever you're doing autobiographical. Make it speak of you and your life and your heart for something because you can never go wrong with that. And people will always grab a hold of that and be so inspired by that and they'll believe that. So just make it real, whatever it is, make it real, whatever's in your hands.
And yeah, so I just, I just think we need to have that, that brave, bold spirit in order to really find, find the gold, you know, and the gold is available for all of us. We just need to be willing to go through hard times some. You know, it may be hard, it may be easy, but you need to be willing to do that in order to find the most. It may be the most exciting thing you'll ever do, you know, and if you're not doing something that you love, find what you love and do it.
[01:02:37] Wendy parker: I love that. I love that.
Well, Kirsty, it's been an absolute honor and a pleasure to. To chat with you and I hope all who are listening have, have just gleaned so much and I pray that this conversation will give you wings to, to fly and step out into your calling. And like me and Kirsty were talking about, get connected to the vine. The fruit of the spirit is love. Because if we don't have love, we cannot have all the other good things that, that God's got for us. So I want to say thank you so much, Kirsty, for joining me in this spacious room today.
[01:03:26] Kirsty Neilson: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Wendy. I've loved, absolutely love this conversation. So thank you so much.
[01:03:32] Wendy parker: Thank you. I'm sure it's gonna inspire so many people. So thank you so much, Kirsten.
[01:03:39] Kirsty Neilson: Pleasure.
[01:03:42] Wendy parker: Thanks for listening to Catch all the Ladies from Me. You can subscribe to my website, thebigvoiceonline.com or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parker.
See you soon.
