Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Do you want to experience the room? My name is Wendy Parker, and I'm extending an invitation to you, dear friend, to open the door to my podcast. So come inside where it's warm, take off your coat, get comfortable, and together we will discover the spacious room.
Hey there, and welcome to this week's Spacious Room podcast. And this week I have a very special guest, Leonie Slosser, who I've known for a long time. She's a good friend of mine. And we're going to be talking about Wounded and on the Run.
So what is this wounded and on the run about? Well, I'm just going to lay a few foundations of what it's all about and put some context around it. And if you've been listening for a while to my podcast or reading my blogs on the Big Voice online, or you've been watching my YouTube channel, Big Voice with Wendy Parker, you've probably noticed that I've been talking a lot about elks.
It's actually the North American elk, to be more precise. And I've been sharing a little bit about church wounds that has happened to me over the course of 30 years. Now, I don't claim to be an expert on this animal, the elk. However, the similarities between the wounded elk and a wounded Christian are actually quite fascinating. And the more I actually researched the elk, the more it became prevalent that this animal and the wound in it appears with a hunter is like a wounded Christian.
So the elk is game that's hunted by hunters, as I said before, and they do this thing called blood trailing. And if you don't know what blood training is, it's actually where a hunter goes on the chase to track down the elk after he's shot it or her shot it with a bullet or an arrow. And the blood seeping from the elk's wound is left on trees and branches as it runs through the forest, leaving a blood trail which the hunter follows. And when the elk can't run anymore, the hunter lines up his scope, pulls back his arrow, and fires the shot that will end the animal's life.
Now, the story of the decades of wounding that came from inside the church, from my story, rather than outside of it, is actually where we're going to kick off the conversation today.
A healthy conversation around wounding and. And how Christians can wound other people in church.
But this podcast isn't actually about shaming Christians into a confession of guilt or casting more shadows over a subject that is often ignored by church. The actual purpose of sharing my story and other people sharing their experiences of church wounding is to shine light where there's only darkness. Because in Isaiah 58, 9, 12, it promises you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness. And if you extend your soul to the hungry and satisfy the afflicted soul, then your light will shine in the darkness. And we want our light to shine Jesus's light to shine in the darkness. And I believe that we are called to build up and not tear down, to raise foundations, not to destroy them. And this podcast, hopefully, will start the healing process of your wounds and actually turn them into scars, because scars are good, and they're a way of knowing what a person is saying is true. And it shows that the scar is showing that you've actually been through something and actually come out the other side of it. And you think, why have I been left with scars? Why doesn't Jesus just take it all away? Well, in John 20:25, Thomas, he wants to see Jesus's scars before he believes what the other disciples have said were true. But Jesus wanted Thomas to reach in, feel his scars.
That told the story of what he'd been through. And it says, John 20:27, reach your finger here and look at my wounds and reach your hand here and put it into my side. So Jesus wasn't ashamed of showing his scars. Even though he'd been raised from the dead and he was from the cross, he actually got left with scars. And I think he did that deliberately. So he said, look, I've been through something, and here's my scars.
So this interview today is actually the start of a few interviews with various people about being wounded and on the run and how we can bring healing around a healthy conversation about this subject that is often not talked about. And the purpose is not to poke at your wounds and to make them worse, but to actually help you realize that there is a hunter, and his name is Satan, who keeps you running with them wounds. And Jesus is saying, stop running and help heal those wounds for you.
So without further ado, I want to introduce today on this podcast, my good friend Leonie Slosser. Welcome, Leonie.
And I'm. I'm really excited that my listeners are actually going to get to know you today. And Leonie is actually a wife and a mom, and she's a foster mom of two boys, and she has two boys of her own, so she has four boys in her house, plus her husband.
So she's currently studying to become a teacher's aide.
And something that she discovered while she was homeschooling a boys, which is great. And Leonie is actually a talented artist. She paints beautiful paintings.
She actually cooks the best apple crumble because she knows her English friend likes hot custard and not cold custard on her apple crumble. And more importantly, I've got her on my podcast today because she has actually been through some church wounding on her journey of being a Christian and experienced her own trials through church life, which we're actually going to chat about today. So, again, welcome to the spacious room. Leonis Lazar. Yay.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Hi, Wendy. Thank you for having me today.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Oh, it's no problem. Thank you for coming.
So, first of all, how long have we known each other, Leone boy?
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Since my son, who's now 19, was 2 years old and your beautiful daughter sort of babied him a little bit and they become good friends.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: It's 17.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: 17 years. It's been a long time. Yeah, I think. Yeah. You were one of my first friends when I moved from England over to Australia.
Yeah. We kept the friendship and. And now look where we are now, 17 years later. Still. Still good friends. It's great.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: So you're a busy lady with the family that I've just mentioned. And so what do you do? Tell the listeners I want them to know a little bit about Leone before we get into the context and the conversation that we're going to have.
What do you do to relax?
[00:07:23] Speaker B: Okay.
Well, because of COVID I actually took my exercise to my own house, so I actually do Pilates, but my Pilates instructor is actually a Christian and therefore is very structured in the way that she teaches us Pilates, being aware that we're Christian based.
So I also walk my dog relentlessly every morning.
Even if it's raining, hail or shine, I walk my dog.
My dog is a Japanese Spitz. He's extremely cute, so it's very hard to say no.
I also read my Bible consistently every morning and pray.
I do draw and I do paint, but it's something which is called prophetic art. So when God commissions me to do an artwork, I will do that artwork and he will give me the verse.
I also listen to podcasts like Wendy's Spacious Room, but many, many others.
I. I love podcasts. I think it's a great way to reach the world. So that's what I do to relax.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: To relax. Wow. Wow. And her dog's name's Hero, by the way, which I think is just an awesome name. And her dog really gets on well with my Dog Rose, which is so true, which is a miracle because Hero doesn't get on with other dogs.
So in the context of church, what role or what roles do you serve in church at the moment?
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Okay, well, our focus in our church at the moment is outreach, which I think is the focus of a lot of churches at the moment, particularly in Australia.
So because our focus is outreach, it. I get involved in anything that's to do with the community. I come from an area called Wallandilly. Last year, I think it's about a year or so ago, we were in fires. So there's a lot of people we're still looking after still to this day who have lost their homes, building up of schools and areas.
I am very much focused on the young children, youth, young adults. That's the direction God is sending me. So I have started what we call a gathering group.
Group called, I call it yag, but the kids don't like that name. But it's called Young Adults Gathering Group, which they really love.
So we've started that in our church. I am also involved in the kids church, which Wendy used to be with me in kids church and we had a ball. So I'm back. I'm so glad to be back.
I'm also involved very heavily with worship leading. So I'm a co leader now with our worship leader to help encourage and to. To sing and to not just sing, but to bring the congregation in a time of worship for God because he deserves our worship and praise.
So we're really focused on unity at the moment. Unity of spirit, unity of soul. So that is my direction in church.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Wow.
Wow, that's. That's good. That's good. So we need a suggestion from the listeners what you need to call your youth group.
Yeah, I think they're like, you need a new name.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: I could just see the young kids now, now gone. Oh, I don't like that name. It's very cringy.
So what is something that people, when they meet you and when they sort of. They don't know you that well, what, what do they misunderstand about you? What misconception?
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Okay.
Because I'm an extremely organized person because I have to be. Because my life is purposefully busy, is what I call it today. Not busy because of doing meaningless things, but doing God's work.
They sometimes see me as controlling and that is the leadership in me. But God is teaching me in this season to be gentle, self controlled, and to learn to be a subordinate. In other words, someone who's under another Leadership, particularly the role that I'm about to walk into, which is a teacher's aide, I need to learn to be underneath the teacher. So because I've always been a forerunner and a leader and moving forward with ideas and so forth. Wendy used to work with me in my business, and we had a ball together. So. But in saying that. So that's what I am learning to control.
Learning not to come across as controlling and, and to step back and take a breath. But that's what people see me as, sometimes as a little bit controlling or I take over.
So. Yeah. So. But God is teaching.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Isn't it great that God uses serving in church to take it into not another life because it's the same life, but just into other areas of your life. You know, how he. How he fine tunes and. And, you know, we. It's really good. That's why it's really good to serve in a church space and, and iron all those crinkles out and.
And take it out into the world. Yes. And we're not per.
No leaders. Perfect.
But it's good that we're aware of our downfalls, our weaknesses, and that's where we can lean on God to help us through it.
So in that church family context, what do you think is the most important thing you've learned about being in a church family?
[00:13:03] Speaker B: I've learned to forgive.
I've learned to give grace, but not only just to the people, but also to myself.
So that's been the biggest takeaway that I have.
But I've also, as I said before, learned to be gentle. I've learned to control, have self control, because I want to be more of a model like Jesus. I want to allow Jesus to come out in me more and more every day. And he is a gentle spirit. And he doesn't force his way. He gently walks. And that's what, in this particular time of COVID I think we all need to learn. We all need to learn to be a bit more gentle and show Jesus love rather than run too fast and too quickly.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Because a good leadership quality is taking a step back and going. It's less of me and more of Jesus.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So here's a. This is a really good question. So if you could turn back time and talk to the Leone who just accepted Jesus into her life, what would you tell her? And what advice would you give your younger Leone?
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Well, most Christians, when they become Christian, they either one way or the other. Mine was totally and completely enthusiastic, like it was just like I had gone home. And it was just such a beautiful moment when I became a Christian. But unfortunately, at the time I went into a church which wasn't as inclusive for someone of the age of 20 as I would have liked. So the wisdom I would have told the younger Leone, I left that church because of discouragement, because I didn't know that I needed to seek wisdom, first of all, wisdom. Sorry, from God. I needed to seek wisdom from God because I was such a new Christian. Didn't quite understand that. The other thing I would say is that I would seek wisdom from mature Christians, which is what I've learned today. So when facing a problem, if you really aren't totally planted in your church, then you can't seek wisdom from mature Christians because you don't know them, because you're not planted. So it's really important to stay planted in a church. No church is perfect. I've been in a few of them now, and no church is perfect because we're human.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: So, yeah, I would strongly suggest for the younger generation to seek wisdom from God first. So you do that through prayer and reading the Bible and listening to amazing podcasts or.
And then definitely take it to a mature Christian, someone that you really feel shows the light of Jesus. And. And they're out there. There's a lot of them out there.
So just find them in your church.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I think going back on my wounding when I was 15, and I don't think I had healthy Christians around me, I, you know, I was just doing church life because I grew up in church and mum and dad were there and my sister, and. And. But looking back, the healthy Christians is. And the mature Christians, and. And they were probably there, but you just, you know, because you're young and you ignore them and, you know, but. But I think being them now, on the other end of it, like you said before, actually being intentional and then looking out for those new Christians and looking out for those people who need a mentor, who need people to speak life into them and to encourage them and to. Because like you said, if you're not encouraged, you will come away.
So I think on the. Now, I'm on the other end of it. I am more aware in my own leadership as well, to really seek people out and go, oh, that person really needs help there. And, yeah, because like you said, with your experience, it's trying to find mature, healthy Christians to just come, let them come alongside you, you know, and. And, yeah, and then it would help stop a lot of wounding you know, and I think that's. That's both our hearts that through the scars that we've got now to help other people.
So on that.
On that vein, we. So over the course. So you've been a Christian for.
And Since I was 20, a number of years, yes. We won't disclose any age, but it's only a number anyway. You know, it's a mindset. Age is a mindset. Yes. Right.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: That's exactly right.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: So obviously you've been a Christian for a long time.
So have you experienced wounds from other believers? And could you actually share just a little bit of that experience of how one wound actually is now turned into a scar and that process of. Of how you dealt with that, how God dealt with that?
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Okay, well, I'll share a couple. The first initial one was, as I disclosed, was exclusion from particular church.
So in relation to how I dealt with that at the time, because I was a quite immature Christian, is I left. Which is. Which is the normal response of what people do in any organization. Let's just be honest, you know, soccer, organization, music, anything. Whenever you don't feel included, instead of speaking out or talking, you leave.
So in relation to the scar that was built just from that is I learned that I become a floater. And I had no point. I had no purpose and no balance. And I didn't mature by just running, by just leaving.
So I have developed a scar from that. And I have learned that with that scar is that, as I said before, you need to be planted in a church in order to receive the richness and to really be able to reach others.
So I now am reaching others, the ones that want to turn and leave.
And I reach them and say, why? Why? And I try to be a voice in that and make them think so. And then other area, when I was.
When I was much older, I had been in a church, a beautiful church, for 17 years.
And in that time I befriended a new family, which I accepted wholeheartedly. But unfortunately, this family was also not accepted by many in the church. Again, this whole thing of acceptance.
So what happened in that time was that I offended these people.
And then I lost friends through that, which was very hard because I grew up really strongly in that church. 17 years is a long time. I served, I loved. I brought my children up in that church. I love this church. I love the people.
So to feel pushed away and alienated because I felt that I was doing something Christ was doing in me, I felt rejected. And in that time, a spirit of rejection had formed which is. Which is a wounding which we feel. So first of all, exclusion and then rejection. So. And it was very deep in me to the fact where I actually would push away people before they pushed me. So it was in there very, very deeply. So I end up being led by Christ to another church, which I already knew the direction I was to be in that church. And I was very terrified because it's like leaving home.
So the wounding that I received, the scar I got from that, is looking back on that now, which is what God's making me do, is that I presumed that's what we do when we're wounded. We presume, we start to look at things completely different. It's like a veil.
So we think something's happening, but it's actually not. It's because you're hurt and you're wounded because you got that initial rejection or that exclusion. And. And now that's how you see everybody. You see everyone.
Everyone, all of a sudden is now rejecting you, is now excluding you. That's what your wounding can do. But Jesus is here today to heal that. And that's what he did with me. He healed that in me. He took that spirit out. And now I could see everything clearly.
And in that, now I can see other people that do exactly the same thing. And churches are big for it because they're like hospitals. People are attracted to Christ, to the churches, because they want to be healed. They don't want to feel like this anymore. And.
And it's our responsibility to make these people feel included, to feel loved, to feel everything that Christ makes people feel, to be the representative. So in my scar, in that rejection and that exclusion, I learned to not exclude, to not reject. But I had to have that wounding healed first.
So now I see clearly and I see people.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: I love that. I love the fact, Leone, that you've actually brought up the issue of rejection, because I think that's where a lot of the wounding happens.
So when we talk about the hunter, Satan firing his arrows, those arrows are actually tipped with rejection and. And which can turn into bitterness. But it. It's like poison just starts seeping through your whole Christian walk. And before you know it, like you said, you're making assumptions, and. And then you think people think the same. You get this jaded sort of view of people.
And. But what makes it worse is that exclusion and it. And it's almost like Satan fans the flames to your thoughts. So hit the accusations and the lies and. And it. And then the exclusion fans those flames, and then you're like, yeah, well, it's true. It is true.
And maybe those people did exclude you, which is half truth, which Satan loves to build on, capitalize on half truths.
But yeah, that. And I'm the same in my walk. The people go, oh, gosh, you're such an includer, Wendy. I might if I told you my past, this is why I am an includer, because what a horrible feeling to.
You really want to belong somewhere. But everyone is like, oh, well, you.
And then you start to think I'm not perfect enough. I'm not. And I'm trying to be and do it all in your own strength and try and be what they want to be and their expectations, and in the end you just. Just come away. Like you said, you run away because you can't meet everyone's expectations. But it starts with that arrow from the hunter, that rejection arrow, and it just turns into this whole jaded, veiled, like you said, misconception that people don't actually want you to. To be included, you know, so, yeah, it. And, and if you take anything away from this podcast is become an includer, and we're not pointing fingers or anything, if you feel like you've been an excluder, then that's okay because that's why you listen to this podcast. It's just helping you, give you tools and, and just being includer and it. And it's not always the people.
I mean, when they say zebras go with the stripes and the spots go with the spots. Pick if you're a spot, pick someone with who's got stripes, you know, and you learn a lot from those people and all different people walks of life, just because they don't look like you, they don't act like you. That doesn't mean to say you can't have some of connection with them.
So, yeah, that is such a good point that you've made there, Leone. And I, I love that. I love. I'm. Yes, because. And I don't know about you, but I still struggle occasionally with that rejection.
You know, even though I've got a scar from it, I can pick that scar and let it seep again and think, oh, they don't like me. I've rejected me. And, and it's like, oh, God's going, hang on, no, you know, stop that thought. And it, like it says in the Bible, take every thought captive.
And that's another journey you have to go on to take every thought captive and go, no, wait a minute. That's a half truth. Is it really true that they actually think that about me. Have you actually heard them say that? Or is my brain going a million miles an hour and it's nowhere near what they think? Because if you actually talk to a lot of people, they go, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize I did that. You know, making them aware of it. And.
Yeah, I don't think. Not everyone does it intentionally. That's what I'm trying to say. You know, they. They. We all some point exclude. But then I'm mindful to come back and go, wait a minute, how do I feel? You know, Because, I mean, you know, I've been in places. Me and my husband have been in places where nobody talks to you, and it's a church setting, but no one's talking to you. I might. And I think, no, wait a minute. God's showing me this because he's going, this is what people feel like when you get excluded. This is what they feel like. So I'm gonna. This is what you're gonna feel. And I come away from that. I'm like, that's right, God. Yes. And I don't want to make people feel like that because. And I'm quite secure in myself now that if no one talks to me, then I'm okay. You know, me. Whereas before I wasn't.
But, yeah, it definitely. The rejection and the.
Yeah, the misunderstandings in the half truth, that's all in the wounds. And you know, the great thing is that the blood trail Jesus left at the cross, it can heal all that. And it. Yeah, that's a journey in itself. But just to stop running and find that blood trail and let you know, because when he hung on the cross, that was what it was all about. He. He took all our hurts, all our wounds, all our everything. Everything. The rejection, the betrayal from Judas, the whole thing. He took all that and he felt it first so he could heal us again. So, yeah, and, yeah, I'm preaching here, but this is. Yeah, so going back to Leone.
So when you see someone who has been wounded.
So we've probably talked a bit about this, but I want to get your perspective on it, Leonie. How do you continue to fight the unforgiveness and let Jesus lead you into that forgiveness? How do you. How do you do that?
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Well, it's funny you say that, Wendy, because I'm going through a fight right now.
So as we know, a lot of people do run when things get uncomfortable. So God has asked me to become a peacemaker.
So when I first heard Peacemaker. When the Holy Spirit said peacemaker, I went, but I'm angry. Why do I have to be the peacemaker? Does that. Does that mean I have to be a doormat? Because that's what a lot of Christians feel. As soon as God asks you to be a peacemaker, he must mean you're a doormat. Well, no, that's not the case, because a peacemaker is people like the people that fight in our armed forces, their peacemakers, the ones that. That are our police officers, that are detectives, all those people out there fighting for justice.
Now, they're not. They're peacemakers because they walk into conflict. They don't stay aside. They don't stand there and do nothing. They don't become doormats.
And so sometimes you have to engage with love, of course, because that is Christ.
So I'm about to engage in a conflict in our church with love that I'm engaging.
So I'm bringing Christ into that situation.
So in relation to the tools, what do I do to fight?
Well, obviously the first. First tool is the Bible. But I do have a book that I have used as a tool for a very, very long time, which my beautiful friend Wendy is about to write, a gorgeous book which this will supersede.
But this book is from grace. It's called Grace and Forgiveness from John and Carol Arnott. I have a beautiful, mature friend of mine who has taken me through deliverance ministry and gave me this book.
So every time I come across, because we're human, we're not going to be infallible to conflict to all that sort of stuff. No churches are going to be completely void of it.
When I do come across something that I may be angry about, resentful about, or I don't like what that person's doing, Obviously the first line that we need to do is speak to our brother and sister. We don't go straight up the line. And because that is called gossip, that is just not the way that Christ asks us to do with that. He's asked us to go to our brother and sister and talk to them. Now, I don't mean talk to them in anger. I mean talk to them with love and rebuke them. You know, in love, I have to emphasize the love after that has happened. And maybe you did not get what you wanted. It may be a good time to bring your case to a mature Christian, someone you trust in the church, particularly a leader, and bring your case.
Then in that time, you really honestly need to engage in forgiving that person forgiving them. And I don't. People just throw around forgiveness and grace like it's, you know, I love that piece of cake or I love that chocolate. It's not like that at all. It is a process.
So when you give grace, you give grace not only to yourself, but to that person every day.
You also. Forgiveness, it's called a redemptive blessing, which is asking God to actually open that person's eyes and. And see what they're doing. But you're putting it in God's hands. Not in your hands. It has now been released from you. You are now giving it to your defender, to your warrior, to fight for you. You are not thinking about it anymore. All you're thinking about is how you can soften your heart towards this person and love them. If you didn't get the outcome you wanted when you first confronted them, this is what you need to do. You need to soften your heart. You need to forgive them. It could take six months, could take two days, whatever it takes until you feel a softness towards that person.
You may not want to be around them anymore, but you don't feel bad or horrible when you think of them.
So that. That is the biggest tool that I can give everybody grace and forgiveness.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: I love it. I love that. This is.
This is so much gold right here in this podcast. It's. It's so good. I really hope you list are actually taking a lot of notes and. And a lot of things from this podcast, because this is. This is going to be the tools to stop some of the wounding that can happen.
So with. With that.
We're always waiting for a sorry. We're always waiting for a sorry. So what's your advice, Leonie?
If we never get a sorry from someone that you really want, a sorry from who's actually wounded us, what do you do with that?
[00:33:07] Speaker B: So when I entered into Deliverance Ministry, it's a company called LL Ministry, as well as Elijah House, they taught us about this. Sometimes you have to forgive someone who actually no longer exists. They may be dead.
So, not saying that upon anybody, but I'm just saying that can happen.
And sometimes it is actually a worldly thing to expect a sorry.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: It's.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: It's something. But it's. It's not that we shouldn't get a sorry from people, because, yeah, it is a good thing. And that's something we teach our children that they should say sorry, especially if they feel it. You shouldn't force someone to say sorry when they don't feel it, because that's not real.
So in relation to getting a sorry, because that's what you want, this is where you need to bring it to God. I what are you wanting the sorry for? What are you trying to be acknowledged? What is, what is your motive? Why do you want the sorry?
So God's initial thing is to release you is to, is to say, give me your burdens. Give me what you're sad about, what you're upset. So you're giving it to God.
So why you expecting this person is broken?
They may not be capable of giving you a sorry.
So does that mean you're going to be bound up and stuck there because you don't get a sorry? Because that's not God's intention. God's intention is for you to be released from this burden. So you need to give this burden to God and that's it. So if the person doesn't exist, if they're not, they did exist, but I mean, if they're dead now, you're not going to get a sorry. So you're going to be bound up for the rest of life because you didn't get a sorry.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: So that's why we put way too much emphasis on sorry. Because the person may not be. Who wants a sorry from a person when it's begrudgingly given sorry, that's that that doesn't heal anything and it doesn't help.
So in relation to my advice is again, grace. Give the person grace. Because we've received grace, we don't deserve anything, but God gives us grace. So therefore we need to give that person grace. They don't deserve it, but you're going to give it just like Jesus gave us grace. And then you're going to forgive that person regardless of whether you get a sorry or not. And you're going to give it to God and trust me, friends, he will release you. He will release you.
You just keep trusting and pushing in.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I think our responsibility is, like you said, to walk our own path in it and not the other person's as well. Because that's, that's not our responsibility. Our responsibility is to walk in the grace and forgiveness and God takes care of the rest and he does it even better than what we think, you know, so. Because he loves that person as well. Like you said, he loves them much as much as he does ours. So he's. He's trying to get us all healed. And, you know, the wounds become scars. So. Yeah. And beautiful friendships do come from, from those wounds. You know, they. You suddenly realize oh, is that why you like this? You know, not, not making excuses for people or anything. They've got their own walk. But yeah, the responsibility ends when we, we take it up. We sort our own selves out and not the other person and let. And just say, okay, God, you deal with it.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: You.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: You deal with it. You're bigger than me.
You're way bigger than me. Way bigger. Way bigger.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Way bigger.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: So Christ has done so much for us. So do you think this helps with the healing for what people have done to us?
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. Definitely. I think.
Yeah, because he's there to heal us from whatever wounds are given to us and to make us whole. Because that's what it's about. It's about making us whole.
So if we continue to give our wounding to Christ, continue to cleanse daily as I've, you know, like, I've only just given this book to my son. And because it's constantly hitting us, people are constantly wounding us. It's just constantly there. And it doesn't matter how mature you are, how much you've walked in this, it just constantly takes that breath away.
And then. And a bit like what you just said a little while ago about, okay, well, I still feel rejection, but that's okay because now you've learned to go, hang on, I recognize it.
Hang on. No, I'm not going to walk this way, Lord, I'm going to give it to you straight away.
So it's not that we're not going to be wounded. It's not that we're completely protected from any of that stuff.
What the mature part is, is actually bringing it to God straight away, is recognizing it, recognizing when I'm walking this way again and bringing it straight to God.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And that comes through wisdom, troll and error and yeah, definitely allowing yourself to be human.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: Yes, Grace, that's right. That's where you give yourself such a.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: Big thing, isn't it? It just. Just we're so hard on ourselves. Yes. You know, and, and yeah, God's. I don't think he's that hard on us as much as we are on ourselves.
[00:38:26] Speaker B: We're much harder on ourselves.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: We are, definitely. Yeah, that's a big takeaway. If anyone's listening who's really hard on themselves, you need to forgive yourself.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: Forgive yourself.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: And you're not perfect. Yes, yeah, definitely.
So we are running out of time. But just really quickly, from your own wounding story, I just want to share the valuable scars that you've had from your wounding. So how do you not become cynical? I think we shared a little bit about this, but not become cynical and still open your heart to Christians knowing that they will actually wound you again. Because I found that not in my own walk, but in other people's, that they will not give their heart away again because it's been broken too much.
What would you say to people who have wounds, but to be safe and open their heart again to other Christians?
[00:39:31] Speaker B: This is difficult.
It takes strength. It takes courage. And in our wisdom and in our weakness, Jesus has strength.
So what I'm saying is that if you give those who hurt you, don't move off until you have give yourself grace in that. So, so grieving it. Open your heart because Jesus did. How much did people despise him, spit at him, treat him horribly on the cross? But what did he do? He loved us anyway. He gave his life for us.
So to be a Christian is a sacrificial walk.
We are joint heirs with Christ, not just in his, you know, what he has inherited from, from God, but also in his suffering.
So we need to just keep moving forward, keep trusting God, keep a loving God, keep giving him our wounds, keep giving him our trials and our challenges. He will give us the strength to walk through. Don't shut yourself down from people, particularly Christians. They're your brothers and sisters. That's one of his commandments, is to love others as you love your, you know, like love your neighbor. Your neighbor is, is, is your Christian brothers and sisters as well as those that are out there. It is your brothers and sisters. And he has asked us, and he said to us that we need, as you love each other, the world will see him.
So if we don't love each other well and continue to open our hearts even when it hurts, can you imagine what Christ felt when he knew that big nail was going to go through his hand? He didn't want to stretch that arm out, no way. And that's how we feel sometimes when we receive wounding. I don't want to make a friend. I just want to sit under this rock because it hurts. Well, no, be like Christ. Stretch that arm out. Allow, you know, the possibility of that nail going through. I know it's horrible, but we are to share Christ's suffering as well as his inheritance.
So in relation to the answer to what you've just said, that's what I would say today. Friends, I know it's hard, but this is a time when we need to lean on Christ the most.
Because in the past, I had a problem with rejection So I had a problem with friendship and I just wanted to sink down in a little corner and go, I don't want to be friends with anyone anymore. But in my beautiful husband's wisdom through Christ said to me, no, because you're robbing people. People need you to be in this world. And that's what I'm saying today to all you Christians.
Other Christians need you. They need you regardless of your wounding. You need to push through it and you need to love them because they need to see your scars. They need to see your wounds because they're hurting too.
So, yeah, so that, that would be what I would say.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: I love that. I love it. I love it. Yeah. And like we said at the start of this podcast, it's not about poking fingers and pointing, you know.
Yeah. And poking at those wounds. It's actually saying, hey, we've been there. You know, we've, we've, we know what it feels like. It, and we're not saying it doesn't hurt. It is a process.
But if you keep following that blood trail of Jesus, then it will get better. It will. It may not seem it now, but it does get better. And yeah, that's really, that's such grace filled words.
And, and I love it. And, and I don't think through all your wounding, you've become, you've not become bitter. You fought, you fought against being bitter, you know, because people can get bitter and cynical from their wounding, especially from church people.
But, but you have let that grace and that forgiveness to keep, like a healing balm over the bitterness, keep the anointing oil, keep going over that bitterness until eventually you. And like you said, we do still struggle with things. It's not like we've got it all together, but like you said, you don't let it take root. We don't let things take root.
Our faith has gone deeper and bitter roots stay on the shallow soil.
They don't come right down.
So, yeah, it's so good.
And a final question.
So we're going to wrap up this podcast.
What's the biggest takeaway you've learned through your Christian walk? And how can that nugget of wisdom help a listener today?
[00:44:07] Speaker B: Exactly what you said, Wendy, in relation to the bitter roots. That was a big learning curve for me, is that bitterroots start. And this is what I learned. Bitterroots start with resentment or a hurt, like someone's just hurt you. Goes to resentment, goes to anger, goes to isolation, and then you isolate yourself away from God. That's not where we want to be.
So exactly what you said in relation to Bitter roots. It's so easy to get bitter and cynical.
So leave those bitter roots. Get rid of them as soon as they even touch the surface. Don't let them spiral down and get worse. Because once you're in the isolation stage, it takes a lot of effort to get out of there.
And some people never seek healing and they do exactly what you said about that ilk. They just keep going. They just keep going and then the wound gets worse and worse and worse until Satan has got you exactly where he wants and you're gone. You're destroyed.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: So, yeah. So that'd be my big takeaway is exactly what you said in relation to bitterroots. Be careful of those bitterroots because they're real and. Yeah. And they can just, yeah. Really puncture you.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: And I think the, the hunter, this Satan's main aim is to actually put our heads on his heavily decorated trophy wall.
And unfortunately we have seen that happen.
And Bitter Root is exactly where the bitterness and the cynicism can, you know, it's just fuel for him to take you out, basically.
So you've actually. I forgot to mention my book that I'm writing, but Leonie, my good friend, mentioned it for me.
So all this is actually so the Elk and the wounds. It's all from a book that I'm actually currently writing. It's called Wounded on the Run.
But I just wanted to share my story and other people share my story through my book to help people find the blood trail of Jesus. And it a redemption story to where I've come from and where I am now. It's just a story of redemption. And that's why I have these interviews for my good friend. My friend Leonie has started off this interview. I mean, you've just set the level like up here.
So. Yeah. And I, and I really appreciate your time.
I really appreciate your prayer through. Through this and your friendship too.
Thank you. It's. It's. Yeah, it's. It's an honor to, to know you and to. And I learned so much from this lady. She's, she's good friend. She's. She's seen some of my battle scars and.
Yeah. Help me through it. But yeah, yeah, that's where this, all this wounding has come from. This a book that I'm currently writing.
So hopefully when it gets published, you, everyone will get to read it.
But yeah, I just want to say thank you so much, Leonie, for taking the time out today. Thank you, Wendy, and I hope you listeners have really got some nuggets of wisdom, because that's just gold right there. I mean, if you have to listen to this podcast again, listen to it again and write down those nuggets of wisdom, because they're really going to help you. It's such a tool belt to help you through your Christian walk and navigate it well.
And the longevity of your faith, that's what God's all about. It's the longevity and looking after you and seeing you flourish, flourish in life for other people.
So thank you for listening, and I'll see you next week.
