Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Experiencing a small, contained faith. Tired of settling for less. Well, this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room, because you were made for bigger things.
Well, hello and welcome to this month's episode of the Spacious Room Leaders Talk. And today I have another special guest with me, and we are talking about the fruits of the spirit. And this is because, um, I have a new book coming out called Strength in Surrender. A daring direction for a fruitful life. And it's centered around the vineyard in John chapter 15 and Paul's fruit of the Spirit list in Galatians. And each month I'm inviting on special guests, leaders who I know and love, who have fruit in their life. And I've seen this fruit, and I just want you as a listener to glean from this fruit and from this godly wisdom, just as I do. And today we are going to be discussing the fruit of self control.
And my special guest this month is Pastor Andrew Kabala. And he has been in ministry for 30 years as a healing evangelist. And he has witnessed firsthand the incredible things God is doing around the world. And Andrew, along with his lovely wife Janine, and established a local church right in the heart of the Illawarra, which is located along the south coast of Australia.
Believe Church Global is its name, and Andrew and Janine are committed to delivering the message of the gospel. And Andrew's mandate as a healing evangelist has not changed in 30 years, and he is praying and believing for more miracles. So I want to give a big, big, warm, spacious room welcome to Pastor Andrew Cabala. Hello?
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Yes, hi, Wendy, how are you?
Thanks for having me on. I'm. I'm doing good. We're doing good. Thank you.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: That's good. That's good.
I know we have a lot of phone chats regular, so just relax this, you know, you're in the spacious room, pull up a chair, have a cup of tea.
This is just like a phone conversation, but everyone's going to be listening in. Okay, so it's all good.
So I know you and you're our friend, but listeners who don't know you, what does life look like for Andrew Kabala in this season? Tell a little bit about yourself.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Well, we recent grandchildren, we've got two sons, and my first granddaughter has just turned one, Tori. So life is full.
And we planted our church eight years ago here in Shell harbor, and it's a thriving, beautiful church.
Just love our people, love all of our leaders.
And yeah, we just busy enough just with those two things. But as well as that Janine, as you know, runs a charity in Cambodia helping young girls getting out of human trafficking in the prevention space. And she also travels and speaks still, and I travel, preaching and praying for sick people as well. So there's always something, always something happening. That's, that's the truth of it.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You are two busy people. And I have had Janine on, as you know, on a podcast episode, the Strength of Kindness. And I just want to say thank you to you both for taking time out your busy schedule and coming to chat with me in the spacious room.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Oh, it's a privilege.
I'm more than, more than happy to do it. And it's, it's exciting what you're doing and, you know, well done. Looking forward to reading your new book.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. So today we are going to talk about the fruit of self control.
And, and this is like the last fruit on the list of Paul's fruit list.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: And when we think about this fruit, you know, words that come to mind are disciplined, not being ruled by impulses or actions. But what's your take on this fruit of self control?
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Well, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that Paul left it to last because it's something that we all need reminded of time and time again.
And I think self control is exactly how you've articulated it and the fact of, you know, to be able to, to manage, to, to, to manage your life, to keep it in the, in line with the word of God.
And you know, some people may relate it to like, self control is not eating cake.
And I guess that is, that is an aspect of self control, but it's not the only, only part of it.
Yeah, self, self control really is having the self control or the ability to keep close to God.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: And, and to be in a place of intimacy with, with him.
So I think self control is a real foundation stone of every Christian believer that's wanting to go on for God.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, and you're, I mean, every fruit, we can't do it in our own strength. It has to be in God's strength because we just fail.
You know, we end up in the perpetual cycle.
Has four steps. Attempt to grow good fruit in your own strengths. The flesh has a complete hissy fit. You surrender to the flesh, not God's spirit, and then bad fruit grows and you know, our sinful nature and this. And like you said, it's so important the Self control is right at the end because it's like Paul going, remember, you gotta get in God's word. This is, this is what it's about. It's not about saying no to cake that. It's so much more than, than that.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: It's.
Yeah, it's so much more than that.
Self control.
I mean, here's a great example. Jesus was, you know, tempted in the garden and he was able to, you know, have the self control to push through, to go all the way across and had the self control to say no. The devil in the desert, three times, the devil tempted him.
And, you know, that's a, it's an aspect of self control that people don't really talk about a whole lot, but it's pretty important that you can be able to manage your life and manage your Christian faith and, and, and keep going.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And as leaders, Andrew, you know, the spotlight comes on us, right? And, and self control is, is not just about us working it through with God's help, but other people.
It's for others as well to go, hey, you know, I mean, we're not talking about where we've, we've, we've completely mastered it. It's still, we're always a work in progress, but as a leader, we're always looking out to others. Right?
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think you brought up a good point.
You know, as soon as somebody says, I've mastered self control, right. I, I would, I'd see alarm bells.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: You know, because nobody, nobody is perfect.
And if, for example, somebody who's listening today is going, you know, I struggle with a particular area in my life to do a certain. Maybe it's looking at something bad on the Internet, no shame, but get help, regain that control.
And, you know, and that's, and so that you can have self control. And sometimes you just need a friend or a pastor to be able to speak into your life to encourage you, support you, to get that control back.
And certainly the devil will say to you, don't tell anybody, but the opposite is true. You have to give God the thing that's broken in your life for him to heal it. And if you try to hide the thing that you're, you know, embarrassed about, you can't, you can't fix it. You gotta, you know, Humility. Humility I've written down is one of the keys to self control.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: To be, to be humble and to know that we're a work in progress and to ask for help and they're good Great qualities for every leader. Listening.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I love that, I love that thought.
And yeah, I mean biblical term for self control, it actually means in power and you know them internal desires and passions and like you said, it's, it's don't keep it hidden because that's where the enemy's playground works. It's get it out in the. And be careful who you tell it to as well.
You know, it's not just throw it all out there. It's people who have got some wrongs on the board with you, who, who allow you space to grow and breathe and, and be a safe space for you to actually go. Hey, this is what I'm struggling with.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: So where, where have you. And we've not mastered this. We're not speaking from a. Hey, we've got it all together. You know, we're trying to help you as a listener, what, what tools and tips and tricks you can have to help you through these fruits of the spirit.
So where have you, Andrew, where have you seen where you've not abided and you've not connected to Jesus the van, because that's the key is connecting to Jesus divine. Because our branch grows the fruit.
And where have you tried to grow that self control in your own strength rather than God's strength. And how did that work out for you?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Well, these are big questions.
I think when I think about 30 years of ministry, I think that.
And seeing great things happen, you know, like people walk out of wheelchairs, people who are blind to seeing, you know, you. We've heard and even in our church, you know, great stories of the miraculous happening in people's lives. Cancer, dementia, leaving people babies that shouldn't have been born born.
And I think the danger is that you can take not the credit, but you can step into the limelight of that.
And I think the self control of, or the humility which I talked about before is passing in any, anything good on onto God and just continually reminding him. And I think, you know, just before the COVID days, you know, there were, there were so many big, big, big churches, big lots of green rooms and fancy fanciness for a better word, that I think I personally got a little bit lost with all the grandeur of traveling the world.
And I think Covid forced me to reevaluate where I was positioned. And I think honestly, I probably got born again again sitting on a rock on a beach.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Because there's no, no travel, no nobody clapping, if you know what I mean. It was just you, you and the Lord, again.
And, you know, you know, just discovering intimacy, discovering his voice again was, was, was crucial and so very important.
So I think.
I think in essence, Covid may have saved my ministry or saved my Christianity, because I think pride's the thing that's kicked the devil out of heaven and put him into hell. Pride's the thing that tries to share the glory with God or wants his glory or it's the desire of self.
But God, you know, is saying, you know, even here, you know, have self control.
And a part of that is making sure that we're worshiping the right things.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. And I love that, you know, you've been very vulnerable and saying, hey, this is. I came off course, but I had to recenter myself back to, you know, there's no green rooms, there's no applause, there's no nothing. It's just you and God and you're sitting on a rock at the beach and you're like, well, you know, and, and he's good like that, isn't he? God? He just goes, right, you're going down the wrong path. I need to, you know, not that Kovid happened just to help you, Andrew. It was.
No, it's, It's.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: I'd rather it didn't happen, but.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Yeah, right, yeah, but it. Isn't it good how God uses things in our life to go, hey, let's get back to center, let's get connected again to, to the vine and. Because if you'd have continued, I mean, who knows, you know, bad fruit could have started growing. But he. But he's. He's so good to us. He's so faithful. He goes, hey, let's. Let's just pull up a bit. Let's just, just take a moment and, and reset ourselves and look again. Keep looking up, keep looking up, because you're right, we can get. And I've done the same. You know, I've been in leadership for many years and, and you do. You get swept up in all the, all the, the grandeur, like you said, and, and we can get focused on that rather than going, hey, God has put me here for a purpose.
And it's always about others. It's never about me.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Beautiful.
Yeah, well, that's, that's, that's what I think. You know, when we, when just going back to what we were talking about. Self control is not just about saying no to cake. It's saying no to things so that we can elevate that relationship we've got with God. I think that's what it's a, it's about turning the, turning the telly off is self control. Really?
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Like people listening. You may think, well, that's just a small thing. No, the telly is not neutral. The television has got a whole bunch of very bad things on it. And you just sitting there tolerating it, not being wise is, you know, just, you know, a small example of self control.
People who, you know, are drinking alcohol in excess, you know, you know, let's, let's just, let's just manage that. Let's, let's stop that. Let's get help for that.
You know, other things that our listeners are listening to, they're going, man, you know, I really need help.
Well, Wendy, I'm telling you, every pastor wants to help. That's my job.
I would like to help. I'd like to have a conversation.
There's great people in your, in your world who want to help, but there has to be a willingness. And that's why I love that Paul says self control.
Because I can hide pretty much anything from church. People wouldn't know pretty much. I could hide most things from God or not. I can't hide think from God, but, but I, I can't. One thing that I can't hide from is Janine. Janine, my wife, she knows if, she knows if I'm good or not. Yeah, she know. She knows if I've got self control or not. She knows.
And part of my job is not only to lead our congregation, but my first responsibility is to leave my church, my family.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: And, and the way that I'm. Way I'm doing things and, and I think, you know, to have self control, that's you control your, you control is paramount.
And if there's something wobbly in, in your life and you're going, I don't feel completely in control.
You're not alone.
It's that we're all, we're all in different stages of that.
But please get help.
Call a friend, be honest and just get back into that alignment of coming closer to God, closer to your family.
Because that old TV show of keeping up appearances, Right? Yeah, M. It's hard work.
Hard work. Yeah, hard work. Just pretending all the time that, you know everything's fine when it's not.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and there's an authenticity and a transparency that, that, you know, you people see, people see fake people see.
They want authentic. They. That's what the world's looking for. They're like, I want something real. I need something. And we're. And if you're listening in today, we're not coming from a place of bringing shame or judgment. I mean, hear us when we're talking about this. We're going, hey, this is, there's people in your world and there's definitely. God can help you with these things. And Andrew, you spoke about humility, and I think that's probably the first step in, in coming to a position and a posture of going, I need to reach out, and I need, and I've tried to do it on my own, but I can't.
And God sends people in your world to, to help you and to pray for you and to support you in that way. And eventually the darkness starts lifting and you come into the light. Right?
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Come into the light. Yeah, 100%.
And it's a game changer. And I've seen it a thousand times over, just people just coming into the light.
I've been struggling with this. I haven't got control in that, with this, but I need, I need, I need to bring that. And, you know, so it's an exciting moment for the listeners who are here today. I pray that at the end of the podcast, if you're struggling with something, you call a friend, call a pastor, and ask for help, ask for a cup of coffee and do the journey with people.
I'm surprised how unsurprised I am when people say I'm struggling.
Me too. I, I'm struggling with that as well. Yeah, because it, honestly, Wendy, it's, it's, it's levels as well sometimes. Do you know what I mean?
For example, you know, like, some people go to the gym. That's good. But, but I, I, I've seen people at the gym and they're on their phone 24 7.
You know, they've got, they've got a weight. And then they, they do some weights and then they sit there on their phone for the next 20 minutes and then they do some more weights and then they're on the fine 20 minutes. And, and, and they say, they would say that they've gone to the gym.
Okay, well, that's, that's right. You have. Yeah, but there's other people who go, like, I, I look at Janine, she, she's working.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Oh, she's, she's like a powerhouse.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it's working.
He's working.
And it said, what I'm saying, what I'm trying to get at is that there's levels of self control.
There's like, you can have a self, you can have a, a level of self control.
You know, with, for example, you know, alcohol or something. And I only drink and I'm not too hurting drinking alcohol. But if you've got a problem, you know, I, you know, in the weekends, but.
Which is great. But in the weekend, if you get hammered, you know, I mean, that's, it's not so great either. So.
But what I'm trying to say is there's levels to how people say I've got self control or haven't got control.
And we are all a work in progress and there's no shame in it. But if, you know, you're in the, if you've got the wobbles, there's something out of alignment, then it would be good to take a breath, humble yourself a little bit, call somebody, call help, call for help if it's very serious, you know, call helpline if it's that kind of serious. But every pastor, I can promise you this, Wendy loves it when somebody says, I need some help.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Because that's my job description.
I'm here to try to help beautiful people.
And I just know from time to time, you know, it's, you know, they've got self control in great areas, but maybe there's an area that the devil's got a little foothold in.
Cool, let's deal with it.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. No, that's great. That's the gold nuggets right there, listeners.
Yeah. And, and it's not doing life on your own. It's coming alongside and, and being accountable, you know, it's having an accountability partner and going, hey, can you help me through this? And, and you work it through, you know, discipleship. Really.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: There is discipleship.
And ultimately when, when Paul was talking about that, he was having a little discipleship moment as well. He was going, hey, you guys are acting a little bit, A little bit. How, how are you going? He's like, he, he wasn't that excited. He was like, guys, this is what you need, right?
You need love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self, self.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Yeah.
Straight to the point, right?
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah, he was, it was, he was down the line. He said, guys, self control.
Paul is coming and going. He's, he's leaving.
He can't be there to look after you the whole time. You have to be led with yourself. You. A self leader is a very powerful leader. Somebody that can reconnect, readjust
[00:26:56] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Powerful.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: It is, it is. Well, speaking of Paul, he offers some advice in Romans 12, verses 1 to 3, and he speaks about becoming living sacrifices because it says he's holy and pleasing to God. And he says this in verse 2. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And as leaders, it's really wise to look at patterns, right?
Patterns. When something is amiss, like you said, something's not in line, something's not quite right.
And it's a way we can join the dots where we can find solutions to the problem. And when we look at the pattern of this world, can you speak into how, as leaders, how do we stay alert to the enemy's schemes to keep renewing our minds, as Paul reminds us? And, and I think about connecting to Jesus. The vine, we are, the branches, the fruit comes.
It's all about that connection.
But there's patterns, right? And we see that in people's lives, there's a pattern that forms.
So as a leader, how, how do you sort of come in the Romans 12 thinking of a living sacrifice and not to be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world? It's more kingdom thinking. What, what do you think about that, Andrew?
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Well, this is, this is the, the, this is the great challenge, isn't it, to be a living sacrifice. It's no longer I that live, but Christ that lives in me.
And this is, we are on the, on the journey of all of that, of just continually just falling on the rock. The Bible says fall on the rock list, the rock falls on you. Just humbly, humbly walking before God.
I think if I was to say in my own life, one of my biggest rules, one of the things I try to do is make sure that there's no offense in my life.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: You know, Wendy, when you sign up to be a pastor or dealing with people, there's so many things you can be offended with.
There's so many people throwing rocks. I feel like, I feel over the last eight years I've just been smashed. Like, you know, it's, it's, it hasn't been easy, but I refuse, although I have to deal with situations to be offended, to carry an offense.
And I have seen great people in church and they find an offense and they can't let it go.
And ultimately over time it will bump them out of church and potentially bump them out of community.
And I think that, you know, having the ability or having the self control or the ability to be offenseless and to forgive people who have wronged you and to walk through that is a real key to intimacy with God.
As soon as people are offended and they hold on to it, then they begin to isolate or they hang around with people who also are offended and they have a little offense party.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: And then.
And then away. It just grows. Grow from the air.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: They gather the troops.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I would say for my life, how do I become a living sacrifice? One of the keys that I would say is, like, in the front of my brain.
And that probably tells you a lot.
I can't carry an offense.
It's very hard to pray for somebody dying of cancer if you're offended with somebody, Wendy.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: Right. Yeah.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: Like, it's like you're asking the Lord for a miracle for somebody and, and he's tapping on the shoulder and saying, hey, but what about. What about that? And you go, yeah, but it doesn't count.
That doesn't matter.
Yeah, Matters.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, pastors listening to this, this podcast, it's.
I mean, Andrew, you know, he's speaking from his heart is.
It's not for the faint of heart. Right. Being a leader in church or being a pastor of a church, it's a.
It's no small thing. And I think we tend to forget the weight and the pressure that you have, you know, because you absorb so much.
But, but this is a great conversation to just sort of like, peek behind the curtain, so to speak, and just go, hey, you know, you, You've got struggles and you're. You're human, too, but you have to still stay connected to Jesus divine because everyone's looking to you as, as like shepherd of the church. But you're going, hey, I, I need to stay accountable. I need to stay clean hands, pure heart, like it says in the Psalms, for me to do my calling. And Paul is the same. You know, the Apostle Paul is like, that's why he kept bringing the Galatians up. He kept bringing the Corinthians up. He's like, hey, guys, we're not the world. We're set apart.
This is how we're meant to live.
You know, he wasn't pointing fingers. Like, we're not pointing fingers, Daddy. He's got, hey, there's so much more fear. There's so much more freedom than where you're living right now.
[00:33:14] Speaker B: So true.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: You know, and that's. That's what he's saying, you know, I want you to be living, living sacrifices.
And so what. What is that? That is self control.
I'm not, I'm not holding on to that. I'm going to let go of this. I'm not going to do that and yeah, that's all, that's all wrapped up in the, in the fruit of the spirit.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we center it back. We can't do it in our own strength. Right. It has to be God's.
We, we have to, as leaders have to stay so connected to the vine. I mean we all do. But you know, when you're leading people, you gotta, you gotta stay connected to Jesus divine. Else,
[00:34:01] Speaker B: you know, there's no other way.
There's no other way.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: There's no other way. No other way. Absolutely.
Well, this, there's gold nuggets right throughout this conversation and I hope you listening in, you are taking notes, you are writing things down because, because this is, this is gold right here from Pastor Andrew, who has spent many years in ministry, global evangelist, and he is speaking wisdom into you as a listener of the spacious room today. So as we wrap up our conversation, Pastor Andrew, what would you say to someone listening right now who is having a real difficult season, but they need some encouragement and you've gave so much encouragement already.
But how, how do they actually tap in and find God's strength to grow that fruit of self control? But in the, and starting off, and I think about when you talked about the gym, how we, we have this massive goal to move forward and we fail and we, so we shrink back. But, but where can someone actually take just one little baby step forward today in helping them in self control? What advice would you give them?
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Well, Wendy, if people who are listening having a hard time in an area or two, you know, as a pastor, I would like to say God sees you, he knows intimately everything about you.
You can't hide from God, so you should run to God.
Make a decision this weekend to come to a Bible believing, gospel preaching church.
And after the service go and introduce yourself to the pastor and say hi. That would be, you don't need to confess all your sins.
You don't need to, you know, fast for 40 days. A step, a step into the presence of God, just turning up to church, opening the Bible.
And I would like to say, you, you, you, God's still got a plan for you, he still got purpose for you.
And if you would just give God a window of opportunity, you would be surprised what he would do.
And I was encouraged. Wendy, last week somebody wrote to me when I was in New Zealand speaking and said 23 years ago I was lost.
But I came to your meeting in Dunedin in New Zealand, heard the gospel for the first time, gave my life to Jesus, and I've never left since.
And I thought, here we go. One step, one moment, saying, God, I'm looking for you. I'm telling you right now, God will find you.
And he wants you to be blessed. He wants you to prosper more than you would even realize.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Amazing, amazing, amazing. Yeah. So if you're listening to that right now, it's no coincidence that you've clicked into this podcast because, because that right there, someone is needed to hear that.
It's just one step and amazing things will be in store for you. And, and like Pastor Andrew said, God loves you and there's no shame, there's no judgment. It's just coming with a humble heart and going, I need your help. Right.
Yeah.
So this has been such a fruitful conversation, talking around the, the fruit of self control. And I hope as listeners, you, you have gleaned so much wisdom from Pastor Andrew speaking. So I just want to say, Andrew, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule and joining me in the spacious room.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: You're so welcome.
We love you and Phil and you know, we're so, so blessed to have you in our church.
And you're one of my favorite preachers. So thank you.
We're honored to have you. Bless you and bless all your listeners.
[00:38:56] Speaker A: A thanks, Pastor Andrew. Take care.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Bye bye.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. To catch all the latest from me, you can subscribe to my website, thebigboysonline.com or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parkof Writer See you soon.
