Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Experiencing a small, contained faith. Tired of settling for less. Well, this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room because you were made for bigger things.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Hello there and welcome to this episode of the Spacious Room Leaders Talk. And if you've been listening to my podcasts over the past few months, you'll know I'm discussing the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. 22 with leaders who can speak life and godly wisdom and into each fruit I choose for them to talk about, for us to talk about.
And it says in Galatians 5. 22. I'll just recap. But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. And today I am super excited to be speaking to my very good friend and publisher, Elizabeth Chapman about the strength of patience. We're going to be speaking into about the fruit of patience. And if you don't know Elizabeth, then Elizabeth is an author and the co founder of Pilgrim and Scribe where she cultivates space for creativity and faith to thrive. And she is currently undertaking a doctor of professional practice exploring the intercessions of faith and story story. And she is the author of several books including historical fiction and the devotional Writing as Worship. And Elizabeth lives in South Australia with her dear husband and their two small children.
So I want to welcome Elizabeth to my podcast. Hello.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: How are you my friend?
[00:02:13] Speaker B: I, I'm so good. How are you?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: I am well. I am well.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: This is actually, if you don't, if you're listening in, this is actually the second podcast Elizabeth has been on.
Her last podcast was very popular so of course I'm going to invite her back on.
We just FYI to all the listeners, we've had really bad technical difficulties because obviously Elizabeth lives in another state to where I live.
But you know what Elizabeth was, was the spiritual one and she actually prayed and then it all worked so that, you know, I felt quite humbled by that. I'm just letting you know listeners. So thank you Elizabeth for being this.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: We needed some divine intervention.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Certainly did.
And you know, this is, this is like we, we VM each other all the time. So we voice message each other a lot. So this is like just a normal conversation for us, but for the listeners at home, just let them into a little snapshot of what life looks like for Elizabeth Chapman in this season.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Okay, well, I'm a stay at home mum.
My husband and I have a six year old who's just started school this year and a three Year old who keeps us on our toes.
And I am also a writer and a doctoral student, and I'm involved in the worship team at our church.
We've, my husband and I, we've just launched Pilgrim of Workshops and publishing books and, and all that. So that's kind of a nutshell of what life looks like at the moment.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Elizabeth is a busy lady.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: And her two adorable children definitely keep her on her toes, but she will not do without them. Right?
[00:04:21] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So thank you so much for carving out time to speak into the fruit of patience.
And I thought in the season you're in, you'd be such a good, a good leader to speak into how to cultivate the, the fruit of patience.
And, you know, I find it's, it's the one fruit in Paul's list that, that we can really struggle with. Right.
You know, when we think about growing the fruit of patience, we try to squash the things that really annoy us because we think, oh, well, I need to gain the fruit of patience, because that annoys me. That annoys me. That annoys me.
But, but really it's so much more than that. It's so much more than that when you peel back the layers and actually look into what the fruit of patience actually involves.
And so how do you, Elizabeth, navigate it and cultivate the fruit of patience when you're trying to stay connected to Jesus the vine?
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it's funny that you say about things that annoy us, because when I reflected on that, I really wanted to get down to the core issue of what, what does really annoy me and what, what I can do, I guess, in the spirit realm to counter that and to be able to cultivate patience because that frustration and that, that triggering annoyance can quite often rob us of that fruit.
And so I, I found with me personally that I, I, I get really annoyed by unrealistic expectations and that that can either be from others or a lot of the time from myself.
Thinking that I have this endless capacity, which I don't. And, and what that looks like in daily life means that I have to keep coming back to the Lord in a very practical and literal sense. Like, I need to carve out my time with Jesus in the morning.
I need to make time throughout the day where I'm returning to his word and really resting in him and, you know, and actually establishing healthy boundaries and margins in my day.
And the interesting thing is what happens when I actually value those boundaries and value those margins in my day is that patience Becomes like a reservoir that I can then tap into to sustain me through those hard moments in motherhood and those, those busy moments. But actually carving out time to spend with the Lord is just so important in order to cultivate patience.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: No, that's great seeing it as a reservoir because, you know, we always talk about filling our cups up, and if. And if we're trying to pour out from an empty cup, we can't. So it's the same with fruit of patience. You know, you. How can you give patience when you have got absolutely zero, nothing to fall back in? You know, like you said, keep coming back to God for that reservoir. Keep filling up, keep filling up. And, you know, I mean, in patience in biblical terms means active, steadfast endurance. So that is like you're not sitting there doing nothing, right?
You're not going, oh, well, I just sit here and cultivate the fruit of patience, and I'm all good.
It's that active. Like you said, I have to purposely go and spend time with God. I have to purposely be steadfast. I have to.
I have to keep filling that reservoir up so I can draw out of it.
And when difficult circumstances and, you know, life happens, that's what you tap into.
And, you know, it's a character trait of God that it's grown in the life of a believer. And it's. And it's not through our own strength, right? It's through his strength.
That's the secret sauce.
It's his strength.
Because we can't develop patience. We can't have that endurance in difficult circumstances and keep drawing from our own strength. You, like you said, you need that reservoir.
So where have you tried to grow the fruit of patience? And this is going to help so many listeners because we're all trying to grow the fruit of patience, right?
And we try and do it in our own strength, but. But it's God's strength. And so you've learned to do that, but it's been a learning curve for you, right?
So how have you learned that it's not on your own? And how did it work out when you did try to do it on your own, what happened?
[00:09:45] Speaker B: It's really interesting. When you were just speaking about endurance, I had this vision of an endurance runner.
And they're not sprinting if they're running this marathon, you watch them and they will pause and, you know, have a drink, catch a breath. Like, they will be steady. And it's not.
It's not striving to exhaust themselves. It's having this.
This Stamina, this endurance, this pace that they keep.
And so if an endurance runner, for instance, doesn't have those measures in place, they'll probably just collapse on the ground out of dehydration.
And that's pretty much what I did earlier this year.
So thinking about, you know, how I tried to grow the fruit of patience and how that worked out, well, the spoiler alert is that it didn't work out.
And honestly, I thought I could do it all and still have patience.
I thought I could do it in my own strength and still have patience. But so last year I was working part time and I felt like I was slipping behind on household responsibilities.
And so this year, with my son signing school, I needed to leave my position. And so I thought, great, this will be my opportunity to have the house perfect.
And so that was one of the unrealistic expectations I set up for myself.
And then the other one was, oh, and then I can just do my doctoral study once the kids go to bed, and then I can be up early to have my quiet time in the morning. And slowly this rhythm began.
That was not healthy. It did not create margins. In my day, I wasn't having rest with the Lord.
I was just going until I collapsed. Pretty much.
Whether that means, like, physically falling asleep, putting my kids to bed, or, you know, quite often earlier this year, I would be cooking dinner and I would be crying at the stove because I just felt so, so overwhelmed.
And, you know, I was navigating the end of nap time for my daughter. She was giving up her naps. And also school pickup time, which is the most awkward time for a kid that is picking, like that, dropping her nap.
And so all of that was happening. But then also I wasn't getting enough rest.
And so I was just, I just really burnt myself out. And then in February, I had my first panic attack.
And that really shook me up to the point that I knew that something had to change.
And, yeah, I knew that I did not have endless capacity and, yeah, that something had to change.
So I kind of, I began that journey of really seeking the Lord about what to do differently in my days, that I would be able to cultivate patience and, and not snap and not be overwhelmed crying and not get to the point where I'm falling asleep fully dressed, putting my son to bed because I'm just so exhausted.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: And it's all them expectations you put on yourself, you know, Absolutely. You were sort of in this false sense of security of, oh, well, I've, I, I've left my job now I've got time to do this, this, this, and this. But we don't. When we have these epiphany moments of, oh, this is what I'm going to get done. We don't factor in variables of feeling tired or feeling, you know, it all sounds great in your head, but the reality is it, it doesn't quite work out like that. And being a recovering perfectionist myself as well, that, that would totally, you know, rub you up the wrong way because then it falls in snowballs into, I feel like a failure. I feel like I'm not enough, and I feel I'm not kicking goals and, and, and all that. And the enemy so gets in, in their moments.
So, yeah, look, you tried it. Look, you failed. You might as well just give up now. Might as well just give up.
And we don't realize he knows it, but we don't realize it's because we're doing it in our own strength. He knows if you tap into God's strength, you're going to get that reservoir like you talked about. He knows that, but he's like, oh, yeah, look, set you up to fail. Yeah, oh, well, you know, better luck next time.
And when you read about John 15, the fruit of the, you know, when we go into the vineyard of John 15, it says about good fruit, but it says, and fruit that will last.
And that's the key, right? It's not just about good fruit.
It's actually lasting fruit perpetually. You know, you think of a vine, it's got to perpetually keep producing fruit each season.
And how does that, how does the vine do that? Well, the vine dresser looks after, has to trim back things for it to grow fruit. It can't have all these straggly branches everywhere. It's got to be cut, it's got to be pruned, it's got to be taken care of. And then the fruit comes. And I think we, we, we forget that, that we always talk about the fruit of Galatians 22, you know, 5, 22.
And, and we read through it like a shopping list. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Love, joy, patience.
When really this is so good.
And I hope the listeners are getting something out of it, that we actually keep parking on every single fruit and really talk about, hey, how can I grow it?
How can I do it? And, you know, the ultimate thing is we can't do it on our own. We have to have God and we just fall flown in the face like you have.
But, but the, the grand pivot of, oh my gosh an aha moment of this is how it is, you know, do you, you, you spending time with God, that's the key.
So you mentioned before about your purpose, purposeful steps in how you make sure you spend time with Him. So how have you learned to, even in your busy day being a full time mom and everything else that goes with it and you're doing like study as well as that?
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah. How, how the equivalent of a PhD?
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You know that is like no small thing, right? Yeah, it's, it's like a sizable chunk out of your week that you really need to, you need to do the study.
So how, how have you managed to balance it a little better than what, what you talked about before?
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
So as I mentioned earlier, I have a solid quiet time in the mornings. So my, my kids know that Jesus, sorry that mommy is having her Jesus time.
And, and so that, that's first thing in the morning before I check my phone, anything like that, I sit down with the Lord.
And you know, earlier this year I was, I was still doing that, but I found throughout the day the little Jesus help me prayers just weren't sustaining me.
And so I needed to return to God's word. And so after school pickup, I have what I've now called, what I now call my afternoon reset. And I make a herbal tea because it's so hot, it takes a while to drink. And I sit down with and read a psalm and I really linger with it and see what the Lord wants to show me in it.
And you know, the amount of times that he meets me on an afternoon where, you know, it's been a hard pickup, I've had total tantrums or whatever's going on, and I sit down with Him, I'm like, okay, you know, and he refreshes me.
And so that, that became my daily rhythm. But then I also introduced a weekly rhythm.
And because our weekends are quite busy, I decided to take my Sabbath rest on Mondays between school drop off and school pickup.
And I thought I'm just going to rest, I'm going to spend time with the Lord as much as I can, as much as I'm able in, you know, motherhood, responsibilities. But that is going to be my Sabbath time.
And at first that was really uncomfortable because I kept saying things that I should be doing.
But after a while, after I developed that rhythm, I found that the rest of my week was more productive because I had set aside that time for with him and I had been refreshed, I had more energy, I had more patience.
And I think sometimes as well, in that we often forget that Sabbath rest was one of the ten Commandments. You know, we remember the do not murder, but we really remember that.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Yes. Like take. Take a day of rest.
And, And I feel like God's rest really resting in God is so important to grow the fruit of patience.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: I love it that. I hope you listening. And you're sitting there and you have written that down because that is a gold nugget right there.
Because, yeah, it's.
And it's a learning curve, right? It's, you know, it. Like you said, it took you a long time to get to that point. And it's not perfect and it doesn't need to be.
And in our little blueprint of what we thought it looked like and then the reality of what it is, we've. We've got to. We've got to let that go.
We've got to say, well, it didn't work out my way. All right? God, have you got a better way? And he. And like you said, he shows you. And he shows you things that you could have missed if you didn't spend the time with him. Because like you said, the Jesus helped me prayers.
Yeah, they're now and again, but not for fruit that's gonna last.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: And talking about lasting and longevity and the years of how long it takes us to sometimes, you know, we.
We just don't get it right?
So, you know, it's like, oh, I've been around this mountain again. Them footprints are exactly the same as mine. Look at that. Someone has been around this mountain with exactly the same footpr is mine.
Hello, we're back around again.
But God is so patient, right? I mean, we talk about patience, but he is like number one, Mr. Patience.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
God is love and love is patience.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: Preach it right.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: But on average, I've. I've done some research, right? On average, it takes around three to four years for a vine just to produce fruit.
So it has to mature.
But during those years, the young plant is busy. And it's not just sitting there going, oh, la la. I'm just a vine just sitting here.
It's actually constructing and implementing a steady root system so it can eventually produce good quality fruit.
And no one sees that.
No one's seeing that under the surface. And I think what you're talking about, it's like no one is sitting there applauding you, going, oh, well done, Elizabeth, for doing that every afternoon.
It's just between you and God.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: But the fruit of it is I have more patience, I have more space, I have more margin. I dip into that reservoir and this is. This is the fruit.
So over the past few years, you know, we've had many conversations, right, about growth and where God takes us next. And we're going to speak into that at the end of this podcast. So just hold on to your hats, listeners, because we've got some super exciting news to. To share with you.
So keep tuned till the end.
But how has God's strength helped you really dig deep and develop a root system where you can produce the fruit of patience?
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I. I really think his strength comes when I dig into His Word and when I linger in His Word and claim His Word as my own.
And so there have been moments, for instance, that I have had to declare His Word over my days, you know, versus like, you have not given me a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. You know, I have a sound mind and I have power and I have love, and that comes from my heavenly Father. But I only can declare those over my life, over my days, because I know them from scripture.
And so being in the Word, I can't.
Yeah, I can't say it enough. Like, I love digging deep into root words and meanings and, you know, God reveals himself and new things to me through this process. Even this morning, he gave me this fresh revelation about a story that I'm writing, and it was all coming out of his way. I was like, oh, my goodness, it's amazing.
And, you know, he's. He refreshes me in that way. But then as I spend that time with him, I then carry that with me. So what he's revealed, what he's stirred up, even if it's just a single verse sometimes.
So there's this practice called lectio divina, and it's focusing on one verse, and it's really just taking that verse and meditating on it in a. In a biblical way. So constantly thinking about it and reflecting about on it and claiming it for ourselves. And so taking that, taking hold of scripture and God's truth, that's what really gets me through the hard moments and the hard moments in motherhood. And even this morning, for instance, it shows me that God also values my writing enough to inspire me directly.
And if he values it, I can value it, too.
Enough to create margin in my days for it and, you know, to do the dishes later or something, and to carve out time to be refreshed so that the fruit of the. Of patience can thrive
[00:25:44] Speaker A: no I love that. I love that. And I love the lecto divina, the spiritual practice. I can just imagine a non patient person. Listen to this. Absolutely. Breaking out in hives, going, what? I've got to sit on one verse.
I can't. Well, I can't read three chapters of the Bible and just speed. Read through them and go, oh, I just read three chapters of the Bible. Yeah, but did you actually sit and soak in it? You know.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so to just have life changing.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah. 100.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you see things that you miss you.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: And yeah, just to, I mean, how, how long do you actually meditate on one verse? What, what's your, what's your time frame? Or do you not have a time frame where you think, yep, God saying, move on now or.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really a Holy Spirit thing. I just kind of listen. But sometimes it's days.
When I was going through a really hard season last year, I was in the 23rd Psalm.
And I just kept coming back to it and then looking at, you know, cross references and, and just digging deeper into it.
But it's very much, you know, starting those times with prayer and saying, you know, lord, what do you have for me today? What do you want to show me and what should I read today? And sometimes, you know, it's, it's going back to my regular reading. I'm making my way through acts, but then I get distracted by a verse and I have to, I have to explore. And so, yeah, and it takes me on all sorts of adventures in the Bible and I just love it. And I love that he, I love that he responds to that, that he meets us there. And, and yeah, just as we're hungry for his word and thirsty like that endurance runner, thirsty for, for living water and for to be refreshed by the word of God. And he totally meets us there.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: 100. Yeah. And. And you know, my thing is the more the word of God is in you, the less the enemy can hoodwink you.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: And you know, you're like, no, that's. That's not how God says. That's not what he says about. He tells me I'm enough. He tells me I'm, you know, a daughter of God and he tells me all these things.
But yeah, we have to carve out the time to. And it's like any relationship. I mean, you know, we've known each other for like six years and we've had to spend time with each other even though we live in different parts of Australia. But, but We've spent time with each other and we voice message each other and, and it's that intentionality, right, of I want to get to know you better.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: And that's what we do when we read the Word of God.
How am I going to know God's character unless I read about him?
[00:28:46] Speaker B: And how are we going to fight against the lies of the enemy unless we know God's truth?
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: You know, the world screams so many lies at us on a daily basis. And I feel, you know, obviously I can speak for women, but, you know, we're told the way we should look, the way we should dress, and there's like this, this expectation sometimes to be, you know, this perfect mother and homemaker and all these things.
And then, you know, we come to God's word and it says, come to me, all who are weary, and I will give you rest.
And it's like we can claim that. We can declare that. It's like, I'm weary, I need God's rest. And he said, you know, take.
Take a day of rest and. Sorry, I just.
Typical mum moment. I've got a, an alarm to pick up my. From school, but my husband's doing that again.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: Don't worry, listener, listeners, don't panic. She's not going to leave school.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: He is getting picked up. It's fine.
But I feel like we can so often, yeah, just buy into those lies, buy into the lives that. The lives that were not enough and that, you know, our mistakes define us. Whereas God's word says there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And so declaring those truths over our lives is so important.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Mic drop right there.
Absolutely. You know, that's. That is, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, just. Even just studying the fruits of the spirit, I mean, gosh, it's. It's been such a treasure trove, you know, it really, you know, we're just talking about the fruit of patience. But, you know, all of them, if you really tap into them, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is such a treasure trove. And Paul, when he wrote the list. And you know what I thought about the other day, Elizabeth? I actually thought.
And the listeners will glean from this, too.
In my first book, Wounded and on the Run, I wrote about the armor, because that can feel like a shopping list too. You know, put on the helmet, salvation, the perspective, righteousness, and then put it all through. We can be like that with the fruits of the spirit. But if you actually break down the armor of God, that's Like warfare right there and putting it on and it's protecting you. But I saw that as like the hard armor that, you know, the battle armor. Whereas the fruits of the spirit is like the oil that goes through all the armor.
Because we need the love, we need the joy, we need the patience, we need the kindness, we need the self control. It's not all rah rah. We're warriors.
There has to be a softness in that warrior mindset. You have to have that. And God is, yes, he's God the father, but he's also got a maternal side as well. He's got a softer side, he's got a, a mother in sort of side. And I think the fruits of the spirit just run right through. You know, we need the armor. Absolutely, 100%. But, but we need.
There, there has to be times where we have to soften and have to glean with the fruit.
You know what I'm saying?
Does that make sense?
[00:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And I actually love that picture of oil as well because it keeps the armor from, from becoming too, like, dry. Like, remember the wizard of Oz?
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: The Tin man, he needed oil to, to keep moving.
And also the oil even makes, it makes the armor gleam.
So you've got this armor in place, but once you have that oil, that, that crushed fruit that has been richly, you know, cultivated and pressed and through all those hardships that we go through and then we come to the end of it and realize that, you know, wow, God was cultivating this fruit of the spirit in me and I didn't even realize it at the time then, you know, our, our armor actually gleams all the more because people can see it.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: Oh, preach it, sister.
Love it. I love it. Well, this sort of segues into what I'm going to ask you next, right. When you say others see our fruit.
You know, Paul offers some good advice in the Galatians 5. If you move a little bit further down from the fruits in verse 25 and 26, I'm going to read from the Message Bible because I love this. It says, since this kind of life we have chosen, right, chosen the life of the Spirit. Let us make sure that we do not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implicit implications in every detail of our lives. That means we will not compare ourselves with each other. We talked about that earlier, as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives.
You know, we need to be careful that our efforts in fulfilling the fruits of the spirit. In Galatians 5. 22, it doesn't become this spiritual competition between believers.
You know, we. We do it all the time. You know, when you talk about fasting, it's like it becomes this big competition of how. How long have you fasted or. Or prayer or how long do you pray or reading the Bible or how long do you sit on that verse? Then Elizabeth, you know, oh, my gosh, she sits on it for, like, three or four days. Oh, my gosh. This is, like, super spiritual. And it becomes this massive competition.
So where have you seen competition and competing instead of communing and coming alongside?
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, in this day and age, I think social media is a huge one, and there are so many accounts we can follow that. That do encourage us in our spiritual walk. And they have wisdom to offer and inspiration, and they. They keep, you know, pointing us back to Jesus in their way.
But quite often we can look at this sort of look at their setups, look at their homes, look at their amazing quiet time spread. Maybe they have, you know, a latte with a Bible with. That's all highlighted and journaled in beautifully. And we're like, oh, wish we could do that. I can barely, you know, scrape together five minutes. And then, you know, there's the homesteaders that have perfected the sour dough, and they're still living a vibrant spiritual life. And we think last night I stir fried frozen vegetables, which is totally what I did, by the way. And the frozen vegetables go. The frozen veggies. And, you know, we. We can look at what is a highlight reel and what a strategically placed props in a photo quite often, and we can think, oh, they're so much more spiritual than me. Their lives are better than mine. Why do I just not get it together?
Why can I not do this?
And, you know, and I've fallen into that trap before. I've actually taken a huge step back from social media in recent months. But, you know, we can fall into that trap and we can set ourselves up like I did earlier this year, thinking I could do it all and still have the fruit of patience, but, you know, competing with that and rather than celebrating and building community with others, falling into the trap of competing with them and trying to stay up to some sort of gold standard that no one is actually keeping, it's just exhausting. And it robs us of the fruit of patience. Oh, never said it absolutely robs us.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And the enemy steal, kills, and destroys in John 10:10.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: And if he sees that Little bit of fruit. It's just gonna come in and try and take it from us. Right.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: And he loves it. You know, he loves it when we see other believers as competition and. Because that means that we're so focused on what they're doing rather than what God's doing in our lives and what fruit he wants to cultivate in us.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: You know, oh, I want their fruit. Their fruit looks good.
[00:37:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: And whereas God's actually trying to do it in us.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, as writers as well, don't you find that you have an idea and you're not. Someone's done that like 50 million times before. But.
But I think God pulled me up once on about it because he's like, yeah, but it's your voice.
It's your voice that's. That's coming through, and that's unique. Nobody else, I mean, like what you write, you know, that no one else can bring it. Like Elizabeth Chapman.
It may be similar. It may look very similar, but you're gonna bring it in a way that nobody else has thought of or spoken to.
And that's the uniqueness of how God created us.
We should not be a carbon copy of someone else. I mean, yes, we admire. We think, oh, that's good. Traits of that person.
But you can't be that person because, like you said, it robs you of your identity. And you know what, Elizabeth? You just end up losing yourself.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: And that's not a good place to be.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: No.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Because I have got the T shirt for that one, but that'd be a whole other story.
So we're gonna wrap up this conversation.
I hope you let you guys listening. I hope you've gleaned so much wisdom from Elizabeth. I mean, I do all the time. I get the honor and privilege of. Of listening to this wisdom all the time.
So that's why I want to capture it in. In this podcast about the fruit of patience.
But speaking of the fruits, we have a big announcement, don't we, Elizabeth?
[00:39:45] Speaker B: We do.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: We do. We need a drum roll.
So I've been busy working on a new writing project, and with Elizabeth right by my side, we are happy to announce that I have a new book coming out in November.
It is called Strength in Surrender. A daring direction for a fruitful life. And this is why.
This is why I'm getting leaders on my podcast to talk about the fruits, because Elizabeth has been reading each chapter that I've been sending through.
I didn't want to announce it till now because I didn't know whether I'd actually get it finished in time, but by the miracle and blessing of God's mercy. I'm almost at the pointy end, but I just wanted to announce it to you as a listener first and foremost, and I wanted to share it with Elizabeth on the podcast because you know what? We're not an island.
We can't do these big projects. We can't do anything on our own. We need others to cheer us on and to column alongside us and, and to help us with things.
And Elizabeth has been absolute front and center with this.
I remember when we first met at a writers conference. It was a quick oh, hello and run away because I thought you were like this big publisher and I was so intimidated and, and we've had conversations where you're like, oh, I actually felt quite intimidated too, but isn't it hilarious?
Hilarious.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: So funny.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: And so I was looking for a publisher and, and it was for wounded and on the run, and I was a brand new author, didn't know the process and that. And then somehow along a very big story, Elizabeth was looking for some bloggers to, to help with a book. And then I said, oh, by the way, I've got this manuscript. You want to look at it? She's like, yeah, sure, send it through. And I love what you said when you came back. You were like, this book needs to be published and I'm gonna make it happen.
And you know what? It was. You believed in me.
And I think sometimes we, you just got to have someone to believe in you to go, I see what you're doing. And, and you know, I mean, you can speak into it with the listeners. But, but when you read my manuscript, you were just like, oh my gosh, this, this, I need to get this out. You know, did you, you know, I know I, you like my biggest cheerleader, but, but how did you see it and then go, this needs to come out? I know how much it impacted you.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the interesting thing is, is that you hadn't finished writing the manuscript yet.
And so it was, it was a proposal that you had sent me.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:51] Speaker B: And I still remember my, my son because of course we drove across for the book launch, remember? And he was 2 and so he's now sick.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: And I mean, we're talking 12 hour drive, people. If you live in another country, Australia is very, very big.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So a 12 hour drive with a small child is no mean feat.
Carry on, my good friend.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: So we, we. So by that stage he, he would have maybe been one and he was still napping, thankfully, but he was napping in the car. That's the only way I could get him to nap. And I would do work in the front seat. And so I remember seeing your email and reading the.
And reading the proposal, and I remember saying to you, this story needs to be told.
And I knew it even then. I knew it in my gut. And because at that stage I was running Doll Ministries, which for many reasons we've. We've needed to close.
And the books, don't worry, readers and listeners will be re released through Pilgrim and Scribe.
But the reason that manuscript grabbed me so much, I feel in that moment was because I didn't realize that I actually needed it.
And so I realized that as I was sitting down with the manuscript, once you had sent me the complete, the complete one from start to finish, I remember sitting there and crying as I read about the elk and the wounding. And that's the wounding that I have experienced in my life.
And that was the book that I needed, first of all to bring healing to those, but then also to remind myself that I needed that spiritual armor. And that was the way that I was going to move forward.
And that book was so impactful for me. And each of your books have.
Have really touched me in a different way in the exact season that I'm in. So first it was with Wounded and then with A Song Is Rising.
You know, you taught me that my testimony can be a victorious song and that I'm standing on the other side of victory.
And so even in that and that one, we're doing it like we. We're actually doing strength and Surrender. You sent me each chapter, and so I was like, I need more. I need more.
But with every chapter, you sent me a gold nugget like this wisdom would just come into me. And I was like, yeah, I can have more confidence in the testimony that I learned to.
To come. I get face to face with in wounded and on the run and to stop running away, even though I wasn't probably in the typical sense that the narrative follows. But in a way I was, because it felt like that really exposed my wounds, but in a really healthy way in a safe space that I could then be like, all right, Jesus, what are you doing?
What do you want to do through me? And those books have grown my faith and strength, and surrender is doing exactly the same. And when I got to the Fruit of Patience, I remember saying to you in your most recent chapter, when you sent it through to me, the Fruit of Patience, I remember saying, I really wanted a quick fix with this one.
[00:46:43] Speaker A: You wanted to read that one, right?
[00:46:46] Speaker B: Yes, and I wanted it to be like. And this is how you get patience. And. But it is. It is not like that.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: It is not. I have not got a magic wand just putting it out.
No, it's a journey, and it's growing your roots, and it's growing the branch, and it's staying connected to Jesus divine.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:07] Speaker A: You know that. That is it. And. And thank you so much for your kind words. That is just, you know, when you sit for hours and hours and hours at a computer and, you know, no one's cheering you on, really, you know, sitting at the side of you going, come on. Well, Elizabeth does from afar. She's like, come on. And my husband is. Come on.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: Yeah, but.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: But, you know, sometimes you. You got to really sit with Jesus and go, and. And like you said, you got to listen first. You got to listen before you can write, if all the writers out there, you need to listen and you need to research a lot.
But it's funny, you talk about my books, because I'm like, you know what? It's like I read them for the first time, too, because I go, oh, my gosh, that is such a good nugget of wisdom. And thank you, Holy Spirit, you know, and. And it's all glory to him, because there's no way. I mean, we talk about strength in surrender and. And connecting to God's strength, but there's no way. I mean, you're the same, too. You cannot. You know, it's. It's like.
It's like prophecy, you know, like profit with a pen sort of vibes.
Because you can't.
What's the point of writing a book if no one's going to get changed from it? Right? That's. Yeah, that's totally me and Elizabeth's thing on. On writing.
Because we want to help.
We want to help be the change. You know, I know it's a bit of a cliche sort of, but. But that's why we have the mantle of. Of being a writer, because. And we love words because we just want to help others. I mean, this is why I do this podcast. We just want to help you, like, grow the fruit of patience.
You know, you're probably at the end of your tether listening to this and going, and you saw, you know, strength in patience. You're like, oh, my gosh, I need this. And. And yeah, this is what this book is going to do, this. This next book, and it sort of rounds off the Journey of Wounded and A Song is Rising. And it's just like this series now that, where we're coming to the end of, of our journey. And yeah, like, like you said, Elizabeth, I mean, you've grown in it. I've grown in it and I hope the readers grow in it too because it's been many years, you know, that we've, we've been doing these books and it's not just churning out books, it's we've got to sit and listen. We've got to know exactly what God wants us to tell people. And like you said, it comes at the exact right season every time.
And I love it. I love that we get to do this together.
So as we wrap up, we're going to wrap up this conversation because we could like talk for days, right?
[00:49:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:49:57] Speaker A: What would you say to someone listening right now who is in a difficult season?
They've got hardly any patience and they really need some encouragement and how they can find God's strength in growing the fruit of patience. What's the final gold nugget you can give to a listener right now?
[00:50:19] Speaker B: Carving out time, making time to spend in God's word and really listening to Him.
And by that I, I don't mean reading the verse of the day on our, on our phones.
And in fact, if you can avoid a device altogether to avoid the notifications and all the things, get out an old fashioned paper Bible and pray and ask God to, to reveal Himself to you as you read.
And if you don't know where to start, I would personally recommend starting in the Psalms. Because you know it.
Whether you want to lament, there's a Psalm for that, whether you want to praise, there is a Psalm for that. Whether you just feel so downcast is my soul.
You know, I'm pretty sure that Psalm 42 maybe.
But as you really sit in His Word and in his presence and you'll feel, you will actually feel refreshed and because, you know, feelings can often betray us. But sitting in His Word and in his presence, actually there's a switch that happens and sometimes we need to let things slide.
You know, I've learned that if I do not put all the laundry away, the world does not fall off its axis.
And that is really important to know because sometimes there are going to be things to do, but the most important thing to do is to give God our first fruits.
And so the first fruits of our day.
And so really sitting with him and lingering with him and listening to him and, and praying and just asking him to actually refresh you and keep coming back to him in that.
I cannot stress it enough how life changing it has been to create those, those margins, those boundaries in the day that are life giving.
[00:52:35] Speaker A: I love it, love it, love it, love it.
Well, I just want to say this has been a huge honor. Elizabeth, you inspire me. Every, every time we talk I just glean so much wisdom from you and the depth of, of your love for God.
You can see the fruit, you know. You can absolutely see it.
So inspiring. I hope you guys listening have got so much out of this.
Get into Galatians, read the fruit of the spirit.
I just want to say thank you again Elizabeth. I love you and I hope we have many more podcasts together and talk about God.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I love you.
[00:53:24] Speaker A: Thank you.
Thanks for listening. To catch all the latest from me, you can subscribe to my website thebigvoiceonline.com or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parkof Writer See you soon.
