Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Wendy parker: Experiencing a small, contained faith. Tired of settling for less. Well, this podcast is going to help you live out your faith in a spacious room, because you were made for bigger things.
[00:00:27] Janine Kubala: Foreign.
[00:00:37] Wendy parker: Hey there. I'm Wendy Parker, and you're listening to the Spacious Room Leaders Talk podcast. And on today's episode, we're continuing our walk through the vineyard of John, chapter 15, where Jesus says that he is the true vine and we are the branches. And he reminds us that unless we remain connected to the vine, then we cannot bear fruit. But what is this fruit? Right? Well, in Galatians 5. 22, the apostle Paul goes through a list of fruit that comes when you're led by the Holy Spirit. And in each episode, I have invited a special guest to have a conversation around one of the fruits on Paul's list. And today I have invited my dear friend Janine Kabala, who is the pastor of Believe Church and founder of Believe Ministries, and Esther's voice and the fruit I've handpicked for us to chat about today is kindness. Because to know Janine is to love Janine. She is one of the kindest people I have the privilege of doing life with. However, with her kindness also comes a lot of wisdom and a lot of strength. So get comfy, lean in, turn up the volume on your earbuds as I chat to my good friend Janine Kabala. Hello.
[00:02:00] Janine Kubala: Hey there, Wendy. Good to be here.
[00:02:02] Wendy parker: How are you?
[00:02:03] Janine Kubala: I'm good.
[00:02:05] Wendy parker: I'm good. Good, yes. So for those listening in who don't know you as well as I do, what does life look like for Janine Kabbalah in this season? Yes.
[00:02:16] Janine Kubala: Well, I'm a pastor and a mum and a grandma, and so I do a lot of parenting. I think pastoring is parenting and looking after adults and people and looking after my family.
So I spend, you know, my mornings, I drink a lot of tea and read the Bible and pray. I really need to lean in to what God is saying each day.
I like exercising.
Being a parent at the stage I'm at is a bit like having a boomerang, kids coming and going. And my son, my oldest son, has a baby. So it's periods of intense family, and then suddenly they're not in our lives day to day so much anymore. But then they all come back, right?
And then Esther's voice, which is a ministry in Cambodia and a team globally. So working with a team and crossing time zones and being organized in making sure that we're connected with people at the right time and understanding culturally all the different dynamics Coming into play and that kind of thing.
[00:03:26] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah. You're. You're a busy lady and I want to say thank you for taking the time out to come on the spacious room today.
I'm so excited for our conversation.
And we had a conversation the other day that many years ago. We've been in the same rooms together, but we. In different conferences, but we didn't know each other. And I love the fact that after we chatted the other day, I sort of had this revelation of, oh my gosh, we've been in the same rooms together, but we just didn't know each other. And then God suddenly entwined our paths and almost three years later we were doing life together and church together and, and I love that. I love that God's hand, our direction, you know.
Yeah. I, I hope you feel that the same that you know, how whatever your journey's been and my journey's been, God's just put us together for, for whatever reasons is all unfolding as we.
[00:04:27] Janine Kubala: So true.
[00:04:28] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:29] Janine Kubala: There's no coincidences. And I think it's all about the timing of God. You know, we've had many shared experiences and maybe we didn't know each other when we were sharing them, but then to come together at the time that we have in the place and the season, you've got to know that that commonality in what we've shared and experienced has been part of what God an important foundation for what he has for us now.
[00:04:54] Wendy parker: Oh, yeah, 100. That's right. Yeah. So we are going to talk about kindness, the fruit of kindness. And I've. I've been looking forward to this conversation and I'm just going to read Galatians 5. 22. It says, but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
And today the fruit is kindness. And I feel Paul added this virtue to the list because we all need a little kindness in the world, right, Janine?
[00:05:28] Janine Kubala: That's true.
[00:05:29] Wendy parker: So what are your thoughts about the fruits of the spirit, especially kindness?
[00:05:34] Janine Kubala: Yeah, well, I've got to say, it's a big compliment. It feels a little uncomfortable even, you know, speaking about this, but, you know, kindness, Romans 2 and verse 4 tells us that it's intended to lead us to change.
And so there is an intention with kindness and, you know, the.
It's a reflection of God's heart. He doesn't want us to stay in the places that we're at. And the only healthy and safe way forward in change is when you have the safety that kindness brings.
I love the fruit of the Spirit, especially after being in ministry for so many years. You know, there's the gifts of the Spirit which are very celebrated and they are wonderful.
But gifts, we simply receive them. And the word of God says they're irrevocable. So the gifts of the Spirit are more about God's heart for his church, whereas the fruit of the Spirit are a reflect, reflection of our heart for God. And so it's impossible long term and authentically to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit without actually being connected to Jesus.
And so, you know, for me, the fruit is where it's at. I'm looking a lot more at fruit than gift.
[00:06:59] Wendy parker: Right, yeah. No, I love that insight. Yeah, that is, that is so true.
And it's really important that as we go through these fruits of the spirit, just highlighting each one, how much I'm getting out of these conversations and learning about each fruit and because, you know, kindness seems like a polite gesture in our modern society. Right.
But you know, the Bible views it as active, generous, selfless expression of and the extension of the love of God. And you know, Paul talks about it in Ephesians about not grieving the Holy Spirit by the way we talk about.
And we need to watch how we talk and what we say because each word is a gift. You know, there's, there's the power of life or death in the tongue. Right. And I find the hardest person to show kindness to is ourselves.
And self talk can become the most damaging voice to our souls. So how can you help the listeners, Janine, on how the fruit of kindness helped you to see yourself the way God sees you?
[00:08:14] Janine Kubala: Yes.
Well, that's a great question. And I think you illuminated something important at the beginning there when you said that kindness can be seen as something that's polite.
And I think there can be a misunderstanding of what kindness is. And there's a big difference between being nice and being kind.
And the way I would explain the difference, you know, nice being nice, well, that's polite and really it's motive is in self protection and a little bit, you know, maybe selfishness, whereas kindness is selfless. It's a fruit of the spirit, it's a reflection of God's heart, and he is inherently selfless.
So, you know, the way I could explain the difference would be if I was having a conversation with you out in the street or something and I noticed that you had something green in between your, your teeth.
[00:09:16] Wendy parker: Right.
[00:09:17] Janine Kubala: And maybe we didn't know each other that well. I You know, the nice thing to do would just be to politely not say anything because it's confronting to say to someone, hey, this is, you know, might be a bit uncomfortable to hear, but you might want to go to the bathroom and just get that green stuff out of your teeth.
Yeah, that, that would be saving myself a hard conversation. But then you would jump in your car, look in the rear view mirror and be like, oh my gosh, how many people have I spoken to?
And be just embarrassed. Why didn't somebody tell me?
[00:09:51] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Janine Kubala: Whereas kindness would be, hey, Wendy, you know, let me share something with you that may be a little hard to hear. My motive isn't anything in any way bad, it's to help you.
[00:10:05] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Janine Kubala: But I'm gonna show you something uncomfortable in a way that's going to help you and that is kindness.
And in terms of self talk, you know, understanding the heart of God, you know that he loves us, he access, accepts us right now for who we are. He didn't make mistakes when he created us, but we do live in a fallen world and we have flesh that needs to be tamed.
So for me, one of the big changes in understanding God's kindness and his heart for me in the way I have self talk is actually to be able to self reflect, to feel safe enough to not be defensive and to receive feedback and potential criticism, even if it's given to me in a way that is not nice and a bit jarring.
Instead of just writing it off and being defensive and self justifying to be like, you know what, I'm loved and I'm safe and it's going to be fine.
So let me self reflect. And what can I learn from that experience or that conversation in a way that isn't defensive?
I think as well, letting myself off the hook when I do make, make mistakes because God is exceedingly patient with us.
[00:11:28] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:11:28] Janine Kubala: So why would I not be patient with myself?
And that has just helped me, I believe, be a better leader, a better pastor because you, you know, Jesus says treat others the way that you, you yourself would be treated. So if you're not treating yourself with kindness, it becomes very hard to treat others with kindness.
Yeah. So I think those inward self conversations are important because they will at the end of the day, they, they're going to come out. You can't hide what's happening internally over the long term.
[00:12:10] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. Yeah. It's, it's almost like the self talk. If you're not kind to yourself, you're going to mirror that back to others.
And yeah, it's, I mean, it's challenging sometimes because we know ourselves, right?
You know what, what we show other people is not always what's going on inside, but if we keep continuously looking to God and going, he sees me kind and, and caring and, and gleaning from his fruit, you know, connecting to him. Because, you know, that's the strength, isn't it?
[00:12:46] Janine Kubala: Right?
[00:12:46] Wendy parker: It's not in our own strength that we, we bring the fruit of kindness. It's. It's in his strength. And yeah, it, that's, that's good that you just kind to yourself because sometimes I, I mean, we all beat ourselves up, right?
And sometimes, you know, watch Janine. Sometimes I go, maybe I'm a bit too kind, you know, and you go, I've been too kind. But then I chatted with.
It was actually my manager at work and she said, kindness is your strength, Wendy.
It's not a weakness. It's. It's a strength. Because the same with Eugene, you know, you have a position of authority. You have, you know, a lot of responsibilities.
But when you show kindness in that authority, oh my gosh, it's, it's a game changer, right? It's, it just says.
It's like when you say Jesus is meek and mild, that's restrained strength, right? And you can, yeah, you can totally use it in a different way. But when you use kindness, what a, what a beacon of God's love and God's light is.
And without even saying anything else, that's just speaks volumes to people, you know, and they see that kindness and they see that love and they see that your strength in that fruit.
And, and yeah, it's. And people see the fruit, right? They, they, they look at the fruit, they see the tree and they look at the fruit. And we are known by our fruit. So kindness is, is a, is. It's good. And I love that, that the self talk reflects how you talk to other people.
And you know, it's a gift, right?
You're giving the gift of kindness to someone.
And however, when we choose to show kindness to someone where we feel like they're undeserving, you know, it costs us something, right?
But when we decide to show kindness anyway, that's where the rubber hits the road, right?
And Martin Luther King Jr. I've, I looked up at his 1968 speech of I've Been to the Mountaintop, and he says this in his speech, he says, let us develop a kindness of dangerous unselfishness.
And I believe that's kindness. Right. That's, you know, a dangerous unselfishness because it disarms the enemy's schemes against us.
So can you share a moment, Janine, where you actively showed kindness to someone who needed to know God sees them underneath all the bitterness and resentment.
How did your dangerous, unselfish kindness soften their heart towards you?
[00:15:53] Janine Kubala: Yeah, well, you know, I think probably the greatest gift of kindness is keeping our own heart soft.
Because for me, as a pastor, as a leader, working with vulnerable people with Esther's voice, you know, there's a lot of behaviors and things said that you just have to have a thick skin and let slide off and. But at the end of the day, one day I'm going to stand before God, just me and him, and no excuse is going to be enough to justify a heart that's hard and calloused.
So for me, the greatest gift of. Of being kind and responding with genuine kindness, like, not the fake. Yeah, nice kind, is that it keeps my heart soft toward people. It helps me keep following Jesus and keep loving people instead of following hurt, you know, and which would allow me not to follow Jesus.
[00:17:01] Wendy parker: Right.
[00:17:02] Janine Kubala: So, you know, but as a pastor, you know, like, I think people have a preconceived notion of you. It's one of those roles like policeman or teacher, where people have a preconceived idea about who you are based on their own experience, maybe with a teacher or a policeman or a pastor previously or whatever the media says.
So there have been quite a few occasions where people have come and.
And I actually haven't known that they have intended not to like me or not to stick around.
[00:17:35] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:17:36] Janine Kubala: But then they've said, oh, my gosh, I was trying so hard not to like you. And.
But in the end, here I am. And I think that you're great. Or, you know, like, it's weird talking about those kinds of things where, you know, I've just been oblivious to the fact that actually they came in with a preconceived idea or a hurt.
[00:17:57] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:17:58] Janine Kubala: Because that idea probably came from a place of hurt in their heart that actually just engaging in a normal, kind way was able to heal that person and allow them to be in a healthy relationship with the pastor or in church again.
And especially, you know, working with trafficking survivors and people, you know, who have experienced abuse and exploitation.
You know, the nice thing to do would be to be like, you've been too hurt to now do anything positive with. With your life. Like, let me keep providing for you. Let me keep looking after you. Not that care and nurture doesn't need to be extended, but that would be just a disservice to that person as well as I would be in error in the way that God sees them.
Like just because we have been treated in a certain way or experienced certain things, it doesn't mean that it's changed our identity or the purpose of God for our life or silenced our voice or mean it doesn't mean we don't have something of value to contribute. Then that can be a very confronting message to somebody who's dealing with extreme trauma to be able to tell them that there is hope. And it's going to be hard, but you're going to be on a journey. Romans 12, verse 2. Your life can be transformed if you allow God and his Word to transform your life from the inside out.
That's. That's kindness. But it's not easy.
[00:19:43] Wendy parker: Yeah, yeah. And there's a strength in that kindness. Like you said, it's, it's not, it's equipping and empowering them. Right. To see the future and to come out the other side of it.
And you're showing the kindness of.
I see the end result and I'm going to help you get there.
I'm going to hold your hand and walk you through it. But you're going to do it and you're going to get strong from it. And yeah, that's brilliant, Janine, because that is, is definitely kindness Persona. Right. Like you said, it's not a polite kindness. It's not a, it's a different kind of kindness. And that comes from God's strength in us to, to do it because it's not sustainable. We can't be kind all the time in our own strength. Right. You have to have that kind of kindness that I'm talking about, you know, not the polite society kindness, the actual one where you walk with someone to get them from a dark place into the light that you've got to be connected to the vine to help someone else with the fruit. Right?
[00:21:00] Janine Kubala: Absolutely. And seeing beyond the behavior to the person and you know, at the end of the day, we can't control other people behaviors and reactions. We can only control our own.
But really now, as a 54 year old woman who's been in ministry and he's a mom and a grandma, you know, you experience life and you come to understand that people's reactions and their behaviors are there for a reason, generally because of an unhealed hurt and very real experience.
And it gives you compassion for that person. And, and, you know, and understanding that, you know, God can heal them.
And the, the loudest message of who Jesus is probably for most people isn't going to come because they've read the Bible. It's because they've encountered a person who had Jesus in their heart.
[00:21:55] Wendy parker: Right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. And yeah, that's just walking testimonies, you know, I love that. I love it. I hope, listeners, you're getting a lot out of this because, yeah, it's kindness and as we talk about it, it's something with a huge strength.
And In Romans chapter 15, verses 1 to 2, the message translation, it says that those of us who are strong and able in the faith, and this helps the piggyback, what we've just been talking about, need to step in, lend a hand to those who falter, and not just do what is convenient for us.
This is the part. Strength is for service, not status.
Each of us needs to look after the good of the people around us, asking ourselves, how can I help? And that is such a key verse about staying humble. Doesn't matter. Your toddler position, it's. Your strength is for the service, for the kingdom.
So how has God's strength helped you throughout your years of ministry? How, how has that strength in kindness helped you through.
[00:23:18] Janine Kubala: I think, you know, if I reflect on, on my life, you know, I've observed this kindness of other people, you know, and, and genuine people, you can tell who really has a connection to Jesus and is doing this because they are committed to him and there's just a difference about them. And I know that I'm here because of the kindness that has been shown to me by other people, and largely women, I would say, who've come alongside me at different parts of my life. And the reason they've been able to speak into my life and bring strength to an area that maybe was weak or vulnerable was because they were kind and I trusted them enough to let my guard down so that they could speak to me.
There's a beautiful woman. Her name is Ann Morrow, and she and her husband started a church. There was a big move of God in the south island of New Zealand in Christchurch, probably the 70s and 80s.
I knew her, you know, in my mind she was already really old, but she's probably only in her 60s. And I was newly married to my husband Andrew. I didn't know anyone in Christchurch. I was really struggling and kind of came to the end of myself where I thought, you know what? I need to go back to Australia. Like, I can't cut it as a pastor's wife. You know, the pressure of that. I didn't even know what the job description was. I don't think anybody knew. There were just seemed to be all these expectations on me as a person, and I just wasn't meeting any of them.
And she said, janine, do you want to come out for lunch? And I didn't eat anything the whole time because I was just waiting. I was so anxious. I was ready for her to tell me what a bad person I was and what I needed to do better.
But she was just kind and genuinely interested into. In me. She just wanted to get to know me, which I found bewildering.
And so when I was at a point of like, you know what? I don't think I can do this anymore. I called her, and she made time for me, and she said that she would meet me every Friday afternoon when I finish work. She said that God had a plan, not only for my husband, but for me, too. And she believed in me. And, you know, I don't even know what we really talked about. I think I just raved on for an hour, and she just listened and then prayed with me.
But, you know, after a year of just having someone be genuinely interested in me, not because of what I was doing or right or wrong, just kind to me, you know, it just fortified my spirit. And I'm sure that in a lot of what she prayed and maybe some of what was said, she was bringing correction, but it was in a way that was so gentle, I didn't even notice. I. I was being gently, you know, redirected in some of my thinking and some of my attitudes.
So I will never forget that, you know, and so for me, that is a really important part of being a pastor of, like, having time for people and. And seeing people, like, not being distracted, like, looking them in the eye and just giving them space and holding whatever they share with me and then praying and inviting God into that space.
[00:26:59] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Janine Kubala: So for me, you know, that's probably in my foundations, that strength, that kindness brought to me and something that now is a value for me to hold for other people.
[00:27:14] Wendy parker: No, I love that. And I can definitely testify to that, that you definitely the real deal, Janine. And it's very refreshing to, you know, you've got that insight and that. That mindset, but it took someone else to.
To speak into you, to see you. You know, like we talk about that journey from darkness to light. Someone held your hand and brought you out, and. And now you're doing the same for others. And the fruit just continues to grow in that from. From the lady who helped you through it to now, years later. And still there's that lasting fruit, you know, it talks about in John 15. You know, it's. It's not just about good fruit. It's about the lasting fruit. It's the longevity of the journey. You know, this. As we talk about Christian life, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
But when people speak into us, even in our brokenness, it's.
It's. It's amazing. It's amazing. And God really does a good job. Deep, thorough, detailed work in us, right?
So we can then be in our calling and be all what he's called us to be. And then we just pass the baton to the next generation and go, come on, you can do it. You know, we'll bring kindness to you, too.
Yeah.
And, you know, God partners with us in all what we've called to do, in all what he's called us to do.
And in the vineyard of John, chapter 15, verse 5, Jesus says, I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, that connection, he will bear much fruit. And apart from me, you can do nothing. And unless we're connected to Jesus divine, it's impossible, right, Janine? To. To grow the fruit of kindness, you know, everyone can be kind. But the fruit of kindness, this supernatural strength, God's strength, not in our own strength.
And, you know, being in ministry for many years, and you've. You've stayed the course, you've allowed kindness to dispel the lies of the enemy.
But has he used any of it to. To try and derail you? I'm sure there's been moments where you've gone, wow, he's really. The enemy's out to get me. What. How can I draw from the strength of kindness now.
Is, you know, I mean, I. I know in my own walk, the enemy has really tried to derail me. He's really tried to, you know, take me out of the game.
But like you said, there's. There's people that God sends us, like, like we talked about at the start of the conversation. We've been in many rooms together and we've never even known each other. We probably walk by each other and we've just not, you know, our paths have not crossed. And yet one day it just crosses and then you can.
You can breathe again and you can go, oh, gosh, I nearly got derailed. But then God sends someone, someone who was kind and it was strong and had wisdom, you know, and I'm sure you've got many people who have spoken into your life.
But. But where.
How. How can you use that strength of kindness, that fruit of kindness, to see the enemy's tactics quicker and go, ah, I see that now. I can.
I can pinpoint it.
[00:31:14] Janine Kubala: Yeah, I think, you know, you're right. The enemy is real. And Jesus speaks about him in John 10:10. He comes to rob, kill, and destroy and talks about. I think it's in First Peter that he roams around like a roaring lion, seeking those whom he may devour.
So he is the counterfeit of. Of Jesus, the who is the real lion.
So, you know, it's being aware. I think that's why the fruit of the Spirit is so vitally important, that we're measuring and being aware of the. The fruit of measuring by the fruit of the spirit, not the gifts of the Spirit, because that really does tell you who the real thing is. So if something doesn't pass the sniff test of the fruit of the Spirit, is there kindness? Is. Is it. Does it represent the love of God?
Is there joy? Is there peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, self control?
All the Galatians fruit? You know, I'm. I'm not buying into that. I think for me, I can't allow other people's behavior or opinions to inform my identity.
So, you know, those attacks of the enemy, you know, that maybe once would have injured me or made me feel confused and doubt myself.
You know, at the end of the day, they fortify you of like, no, you don't get to tell me who I am.
And your behavior, you know, people's behavior that maybe is bad or not kind. It doesn't determine my response. It doesn't determine my behavior and really leaning into God.
No, you tell me who I am. You know, spend a lot of time reading the Bible.
I have to be very intentional in what I listen to and who I surround myself with. I go to the gym a lot or run, and I listen to worship and podcasts to make sure that my spirit is being fed by the word of God and his presence.
And then, you know, I think, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. There's so many scriptures that speak about the company that we keep, and Ecclesiastes makes it clear that we need each other to pull each other out of a ditch or, you know, I love our walks together, you know, where we can talk. And, you know, I would hope that If I'm saying something and that, you know, out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks that. And, And I'm saying something that sounds like I'm going on a bit of a wrong track or a woe is me or something like that, that you would then pull me out of that ditch, you know, and likewise, you know, it's. We need good friends who demonstrate the fruit of the spirit, which is kindness.
Because the way I see kindness, it's like that Mary Poppins song. Just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.
[00:34:30] Wendy parker: Right. Yeah.
[00:34:32] Janine Kubala: And so a friend, you know, that, you know, loves you and they've. They've got the sugar or the. My mom used to stick medicine or a tablet in honey.
[00:34:43] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:34:45] Janine Kubala: So it's surrounded. It might be a bitter tasting pill, but it's surrounded in something sweet. And that's a good friend. That's a Christian friend.
[00:34:52] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:34:53] Janine Kubala: Can deliver the correction in the. The tablespoon or the spoonful of sugar or honey.
And also, you know, just be there to comfort you.
[00:35:05] Wendy parker: Yeah.
[00:35:06] Janine Kubala: Because sometimes unkindness, you know, we're humans, we've got a soul, we've got emotions.
We just need someone to say, well, that was not okay. And I'm gonna be here with you and you can cry and then we're gonna pray and, you know, and then we're gonna do something fun or, you know, like, I feel like that is really important to protect our hearts and keep us in kindness.
[00:35:39] Wendy parker: Yeah. No, I love that, Janine. And, and your real core friends are the ones who listen.
They, you know, we can all vent and have our moments, but then they go, okay, now it's time to dry your tears. What are we going to do? We're going to pray and we're going to do this. And, yeah, it gets you out of that little funk, you know, and, and yeah, they're the real friends. They're, you know, not, oh, you know, how can we club together and attack this next person? You know, it's. That's not, that's not your core friends. And like you said, keeping who you are and what your, you know, you're very savvy on who you.
I'm the same. Who is going to be in my inner world, who is going to speak life into me, who is going to help me? And I love what you said, Janine. I mean, listeners, write this down. You know, you got to pass the sniff test, right? The fruit has got to pass the sniff test. Because we all know bad fruit, but we all need A friend who spiritually gets that bit of spinach out your teeth. Right. And helps you along.
Because we need people to speak into us, to help us grow.
Ultimately, Jesus absolutely connected, but he doesn't put us in life on our own. We're not islands. We are people who need people. You know, as it says in scripture, it's not good for man to be alone, and he puts people around us, and it's almost like it's seasonal. It's like you are the right person to be in this season, you know, And I always say, you know, some friends come and go, but some friends will stay forever. And, you know, the ones who are going to stick around through thick and thin and have those teary moments and just, you know, and have fun as well. You know, we. We need to laugh. We need to have fun.
[00:37:46] Janine Kubala: Yes.
[00:37:47] Wendy parker: Because life's tough.
[00:37:48] Janine Kubala: Very important. Fruit of the spirit, 100%.
[00:37:52] Wendy parker: You know, we'll have a whole conversation about that another day, listeners. But, yeah, joy.
And, you know, because we do the hard yards and. And we need some.
Some fun and laughter. And when you've got your group of friends that you just trust and.
And you love doing life with them, and you leave feeling better. Right?
We all have those people that, you know, when we've been around and we're like, oh, my gosh, like, weight is around my neck.
You. You need. You need that kindness and that love and that.
I see you.
You don't have to be anyone other than who you are. That's okay.
But we do life together, and I. I love that.
I love it.
So as we've talked about, sometimes the kindest thing to do is to tell the truth and to say it in love, but cover it with sugar. The Mary Poppins analogy. I love it. I almost sang it, Janine. I almost was singing it in my head.
Probably not because I'm now singer, but I love that movie. And I love it that, you know, what a thought came to my head is. To start with, they didn't like Mary Poppins, Right. But in the end, they couldn't do without her. And then she left, put her umbrella up with the little parrot on, and off she went.
And I. And I just think sometimes there is people in our life that you think, oh, I don't really want them in my life, but sometimes they will teach us things that, you know, mentors come in all different shapes and sizes.
[00:39:39] Janine Kubala: The truth, you know, the truth. And unless that mentor is Jesus, they're going to be flawed. So you've got to accept the good with spit out there. What is it? Take the meat, spit out the bones.
[00:39:51] Wendy parker: That's. Spit out them bones.
[00:39:52] Janine Kubala: What do you do if you're a vegetarian? I'm not sure.
[00:39:56] Wendy parker: What do you do? You have fakeness. It's not bacon. It's bacon.
So as we wrap up this conversation, you know, Jesus told the truth in love and kindness all the time throughout his three year ministry. I mean, I just think of the times when the disciples, he was healing people in villages and towns and all the people like, you need to stay, you need to stay. And he's like, no, I need to move on. And he did. That was a leadership thing, right? He had to go and see other people. And he said, I only do what my father tells me. That's what I do. And he could have stayed in villages and towns forever, but his leadership mindset, his.
He needed to go and keep doing what he was called to do. And that was kindness. Right?
So he was intentional and he lived out active kindness all the time. I mean, he said some, some really poignant things.
You know, he was always having a go at the Pharisees and the Sadducees, but he was, it's like he was bringing kindness in a way that was truth.
And some did, you know, come to know him, which was amazing.
But, you know, kindness is seen as weakness, but it's actually God flipping the script, taking control of the narrative so the enemy has no wiggle room to move. So as we wrap up this fruitful conversation, what would you say to someone listening right now who needs to hear that their greatest strength is found in choosing kindness?
[00:41:42] Janine Kubala: Yeah, I think kindness is a strength.
And.
[00:41:53] Wendy parker: I mean, you know, it's, I think it's, it's like what I said before. You can beat yourself up being kind, right? You can, you can go, I'm too kind to get railroaded. I get, I get this. But you know, someone speaks into you and says, no, that's a strength. That's a strength.
[00:42:14] Janine Kubala: I think, you know, like, there's a difference between being kind and not being able to hold a boundary. And I think that's where it gets confusing for people.
So, you know, kindness is a strength. And sometimes kindness is holding that boundary. And you don't need to be defensive, you don't need to justify.
So maybe for some people being kind is actually saying, no, I love it. Holding, holding a boundary.
Because, you know, it can be so confusing. Nice and kind, they are used interchangeably.
And the enemy does come with the counterfeit all the time. And if he can't wear us out, you know, with maybe addiction and obviously, you know, bad behavior, he's going to wear us out with doing good and being kind. Inadvertent inverted commas where it's the false kind of kind.
So strength that comes from kindness is actually seeking God, following Jesus and loving people, not following people and then justifying it as, oh, well, I need to, it's because I love them. No, it's you're following them, follow Jesus. And like you shared, Jesus said, no, Jesus said, I'm leaving now.
And it's in your best interest because he was following what God said.
So I think just making sure that your true north is the word of God and that it's not people pleasing that we're motivated by and allowing yourself the ability to say no and then not beating yourself up about it.
[00:43:59] Wendy parker: No. Yeah, that. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So listeners, if you've been taking notes, just know the highlights is the sniff test. Make sure you know, the fruit, the spoonful of sugar. And what Janine's just said was like mic drop. You know, that that was such good wisdom and, you know, the fruit of kindness. I do hope the listeners that you've gained some wisdom with Janine talking about finding God's strength in choosing kindness.
And I want to thank you so much, Janine, for joining me in the spacious room today.
[00:44:47] Janine Kubala: It's been a pleasure. Thank you for doing this podcast. Wendy, you're a blessing.
[00:44:51] Wendy parker: Thank you.
Thanks for listening. To catch all the latest from me, you can subscribe to my website, the bigboysonline.com or follow me on Instagram. Wendy J. Parkof, writer see you soon.
